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[Music]

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greetings friends fellow enthusiasts of

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astrobiology and explorers of all ages

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and welcome to ask an astrobiologist a

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show that celebrates the science and

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celebrates the scientists involved in

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our quest to understand the nature of

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life

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i'm your host dr graham wow and we're

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brought to you by the nasa astrobiology

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program and saginet.org

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as always we want to give a huge shout

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out to those out there who share about

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our show and interact with our guests

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and talk about astrobiology with us on

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twitter and all the other places you can

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find us

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this month we want to highlight garrett

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champion for sharing on twitter about

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today's episode though later on in the

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show we'll also talk about many of you

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who've been sharing and talking about

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technology and instruments in

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astrobiology and that's exactly what

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today's episode is is going to focus on

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we have two researchers from nasa

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joining us who've both been involved in

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the technology and the science of

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astrobiology and how we look for life

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out there just this past week the nasa

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astrobiology program

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and the enfold or network for life

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detection rcn together put on a workshop

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called the future of the search for life

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or fossil bringing together researchers

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and technologists involved in the

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synergies and the intersections of how

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we develop instruments and technology

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for conducting life detection science

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and both of today's guests were involved

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in the committee organizing this exact

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meeting so without further ado i'd like

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to bring both of them on i'll introduce

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both first and then we can say hello

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uh dr stephanie getty is the acting

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director of the solar system exploration

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division and a planetary research

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scientist at nasa's goddard space flight

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center her research interests are in the

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area of in-situ planetary exploration

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particularly in the pursuit of

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understanding the origin and evolution

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of past and present habitable

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environments in our solar system she is

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currently the deputy principal

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investigator as well of the da vinci

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mission to venus

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and then we also have joining us dr

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richard quinn he's a research scientist

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at nasa's ames research center he's been

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involved in a variety of projects

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involving instrument and technology

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development for earth and space

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exploration including research in the

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atacama desert on instrumentation for

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mars exploration and technologies for

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exploring the icy worlds of our solar

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system he's also a member of the

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steering committee for the rcn called

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the network for ocean worlds or now uh

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so doctors getty and quinn thank you

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both for joining us for ask an

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astrobiologist

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uh you're welcome glad to be here

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glad to be here graham thanks for the

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invitation yeah this is super exciting

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to have you on uh i wanted to talk about

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the builder show for some time now but

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our main impetus was to talk primarily

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to start off with this workshop that

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we've convened

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after biology

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and so i'm wondering um

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stephanie you don't mind what were the

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motivations for the fossil workshop uh

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and what was really the need to have

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this workshop

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well that is um an appreciated question

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and i hope that richard gets a chance to

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respond to because he's been so central

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to the organization of this workshop but

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of course

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you know life detection is one of those

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profound um

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opportunities that we have now that

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we're learning more about habitable

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environments throughout our solar system

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and beyond right but this workshop

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really focuses on the concept of being

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able to go and visit a habitable

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environment and how would we confidently

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um detect life uh uh you know answers we

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have questions about

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uh the development of life in some of

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these

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solar system so we don't

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uh fully know how uh how to to do that

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in a comprehensive way and for all

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environments and so we're holding this

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workshop to really engage

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um the communities that are gonna be

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thankful to answering this question from

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the science community

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really broadly engaging

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not only seasoned planetary scientists

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but also

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new minds uh in the pursuit of this this

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question but also we also need

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technologists and we need engineers to

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realize those goals so this workshop is

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really um you know has the objective of

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bringing together those communities and

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uh and taking a systematic um a

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combination of systematic and kind of

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creative approaches uh to uh to coming

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up with new ideas and then following

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those ideas through to thinking through

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you know what would really face um those

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uh those

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measurements and the technologies would

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be that would be required to be a

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reality

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fantastic yeah i'm glad to mention these

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different communities that are coming

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together for this workshop as well you

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know a lot of us think about things like

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you know engineers tell scientists we

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can only land in certain places on mars

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but then scientists want to do certain

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science and so we have to ask the

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engineers what can we do

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and so richard for you

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what do we actually need to do to

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integrate more of this knowledge from

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science and engineering

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and will this workshop get us there or

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what is kind of the long-term product

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then from this meeting

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well i think that this workshop is is a

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start and there are other um you know uh

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people working to bring these

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communities together and and you know

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early on when people were being invited

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and started participating they

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immediately recognized that there's a

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real need to get engineers into the

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conversation early i think a lot of

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times

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you know the scientists they have their

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ideas their hypothesis and they pursue

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it down a path

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and it's uh quite a while before they

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actually come back to the reality of how

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do you actually implement this and

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getting that conversation going with

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engineers

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so i think that this workshop is a

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really good forum for that for bringing

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those two groups together

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wonderful

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so

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a little bit with both of you to talk a

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little bit about the pathways of

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instrument development um so stephanie

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what instruments have you personally

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been involved with for one thing but

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then also what is it like to be a

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scientist working with these

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technologies that we send to other

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worlds and then we have you know years

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of data collection bringing that

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information back to us

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studying it

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there are so many questions in that

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question graham but i will try to answer

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them

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so i'll run through the list i guess

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i've i've watched um

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several instruments get built during my

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career at nasa they've primarily been in

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situ

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analytical

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instruments

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typically with mass spectrometry

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involved

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i watched uh the sample analysis at mars

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instrument suite get built and delivered

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to myers science laboratory and now it's

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nearing 10 years of incredible

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operations at gale crater on mars um

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watched the neutral gas and ion mass

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spectrometer engines get developed from

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the maven mission which is still

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orbiting around mars making discoveries

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there um

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ionic neutral mass spectrometer for

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laddie uh which was an orbiter around

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the moon um and then you know i was

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really uh in the room for a lot of um

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the development of the mars organic

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molecule analyzer moma mass spectrometer

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which was delivered to the mars rover

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and now i have the real privilege to

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work in the same groups that are

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and with the same groups that are

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developing drams the dragonfly mass

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spectrometer for uh titan titan moon uh

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mission dragonfly um

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and you mentioned a deputy pi one of the

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two wpi's for davinci

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admission to venus and we'll be flying

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the venus mass spectrometer on that

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probe through the atmosphere uh to the

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near surface of venus um so uh so that's

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that's

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my most direct connection to

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in-situ instrumentation for space flight

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and then you kind of asked um you know

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what does it take to you know to really

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develop these things i think of it as

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like kind of a series of questions i

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promise i will not describe all the

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technology readiness levels um right now

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which there are nine of them um they're

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called trls um but i'm not going to talk

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about them

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but you can think about a series of

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questions like

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you know you have a science question

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what measurement or piece of measurement

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do you want to make to answer that

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science question how do you do that with

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a particular instrument or a particular

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technique does that

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technique work in the lab does that

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thing measure the other thing you're

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trying to measure with sufficient

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performance you know can the thing fit

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on a spacecraft and if not you have to

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probably build a you know a version of

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it that does

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um to fit within volume and mass and

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power requirements of the mission then

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you ask does the thing still work after

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you make it small enough to fit on a

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spacecraft and then you have to test it

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under the environments that it will

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experience so not only in the

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environment of the eventual you know

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mission

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for operate science operations but also

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will it survive launch and will it's if

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it has to land does it survive the

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landing conditions so you really put i

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mean it's a it's a process it takes

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years as you might imagine um but uh but

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it's but it's logical and it you know in

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a series of steps you you just ask these

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harder and harder questions of the of

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the thing you want to build

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that's so awesome i do have to say i'm a

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little jealous with all these

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instruments you mentioned that you've

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had involvement with um

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you know being involved around

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instruments going to the moon and mars

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and venus and all these different places

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i mean that's fantastic and then

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dragonfly coming up um that's so cool uh

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and i love you know that you share with

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our audience decided there are some

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trade-offs that come into instrument

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development and how we actually can

284
00:10:23,670 --> 00:10:21,680
answer the questions that we're sending

285
00:10:25,269 --> 00:10:23,680
these instruments out to do

286
00:10:26,630 --> 00:10:25,279
uh and so richard i'd like to come to

287
00:10:28,630 --> 00:10:26,640
you you mentioned when we were first

288
00:10:30,310 --> 00:10:28,640
prepping for this episode to us

289
00:10:32,470 --> 00:10:30,320
that that instrument development is a

290
00:10:34,389 --> 00:10:32,480
process of try and try again

291
00:10:36,550 --> 00:10:34,399
and i wonder if you can can kind of you

292
00:10:38,230 --> 00:10:36,560
know go deeper on that expound on that

293
00:10:39,910 --> 00:10:38,240
idea a little bit uh with what

294
00:10:41,829 --> 00:10:39,920
instruments you've been involved in and

295
00:10:42,949 --> 00:10:41,839
and how is it a process of try and try

296
00:10:46,310 --> 00:10:42,959
again

297
00:10:47,750 --> 00:10:46,320
uh sure um well um i i can guess i can

298
00:10:50,310 --> 00:10:47,760
start at the beginning which was quite a

299
00:10:52,949 --> 00:10:50,320
while ago um but when i first started in

300
00:10:54,949 --> 00:10:52,959
in this business or in astrobiology i

301
00:10:58,230 --> 00:10:54,959
was dispatched down to

302
00:10:59,030 --> 00:10:58,240
jpl's micro devices lab and i worked on

303
00:11:01,509 --> 00:10:59,040
the

304
00:11:04,069 --> 00:11:01,519
uh mars occident instrument

305
00:11:07,030 --> 00:11:04,079
which was launched on a russian mission

306
00:11:09,110 --> 00:11:07,040
uh unfortunately it it failed uh before

307
00:11:10,949 --> 00:11:09,120
reaching um yeah

308
00:11:12,550 --> 00:11:10,959
there was common back then

309
00:11:14,470 --> 00:11:12,560
um

310
00:11:16,150 --> 00:11:14,480
but but that really started trajectory

311
00:11:18,389 --> 00:11:16,160
for technology development and different

312
00:11:19,509 --> 00:11:18,399
ways to interrogate environments i would

313
00:11:22,550 --> 00:11:19,519
say that it

314
00:11:23,750 --> 00:11:22,560
it it took two paths um the first path

315
00:11:25,750 --> 00:11:23,760
is

316
00:11:27,110 --> 00:11:25,760
the mars oxygen instrument then morphed

317
00:11:32,310 --> 00:11:27,120
into

318
00:11:35,350 --> 00:11:32,320
the mars oxidant instrument and that was

319
00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:35,360
pursued and pushed towards um

320
00:11:40,870 --> 00:11:39,040
implementation on exomars

321
00:11:42,790 --> 00:11:40,880
which was

322
00:11:44,790 --> 00:11:42,800
initially on the payload but then got

323
00:11:48,949 --> 00:11:44,800
de-scoped

324
00:11:51,350 --> 00:11:48,959
but simultaneously in another direction

325
00:11:53,990 --> 00:11:51,360
the mars oxidant experiment was looking

326
00:11:56,069 --> 00:11:54,000
at solid regulated material parallel to

327
00:11:57,430 --> 00:11:56,079
interrogate the service chemistry of

328
00:11:59,750 --> 00:11:57,440
mars

329
00:12:02,150 --> 00:11:59,760
went on a path of developing

330
00:12:03,829 --> 00:12:02,160
the mecca white chemistry experiment

331
00:12:05,269 --> 00:12:03,839
which was eventually launched on the

332
00:12:07,750 --> 00:12:05,279
phoenix mission

333
00:12:10,389 --> 00:12:07,760
um in the interim i was involved in

334
00:12:12,629 --> 00:12:10,399
another a number of

335
00:12:14,470 --> 00:12:12,639
different technologies that

336
00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:14,480
were developed for instance the first

337
00:12:19,509 --> 00:12:17,040
prototype of tega

338
00:12:21,910 --> 00:12:19,519
which was uh the thermal involved gas

339
00:12:24,550 --> 00:12:21,920
analysis which defensively was also

340
00:12:27,990 --> 00:12:24,560
included on the phoenix mission and the

341
00:12:31,350 --> 00:12:28,000
mars oxygen experiment after getting

342
00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:31,360
de-scoped from exomars it was sort of

343
00:12:35,350 --> 00:12:33,600
retooled and finally that technology was

344
00:12:38,230 --> 00:12:35,360
implemented on the first

345
00:12:40,629 --> 00:12:38,240
astrobiology nano satellite mission i'm

346
00:12:43,829 --> 00:12:40,639
looking at how do

347
00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:43,839
biological materials have organics

348
00:12:48,389 --> 00:12:46,000
how are they changed in space

349
00:12:51,030 --> 00:12:48,399
environment and how might we apply that

350
00:12:53,910 --> 00:12:51,040
science to um to what's happening on

351
00:12:56,550 --> 00:12:53,920
other planetary surfaces

352
00:12:58,710 --> 00:12:56,560
yeah very cool

353
00:13:00,389 --> 00:12:58,720
evolution of progress

354
00:13:02,069 --> 00:13:00,399
they might not work sometimes or we

355
00:13:03,430 --> 00:13:02,079
might lose them on launch but we can

356
00:13:05,670 --> 00:13:03,440
still continue you know the research

357
00:13:07,509 --> 00:13:05,680
forward which i appreciate a lot that

358
00:13:09,990 --> 00:13:07,519
reminds me a lot of the the loss of

359
00:13:11,590 --> 00:13:10,000
phobos grunt many years ago uh and the

360
00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:11,600
life disc that many of us had support

361
00:13:15,430 --> 00:13:13,760
from the planetary society going out to

362
00:13:17,670 --> 00:13:15,440
phobos and back i hope to see something

363
00:13:18,629 --> 00:13:17,680
similar in the near future um but you

364
00:13:19,750 --> 00:13:18,639
said to me something in the very

365
00:13:21,590 --> 00:13:19,760
beginning there richard i'd like to come

366
00:13:23,829 --> 00:13:21,600
back to you mentioned environmental

367
00:13:25,350 --> 00:13:23,839
context and i know in talking to you

368
00:13:26,790 --> 00:13:25,360
previously that you've done field work

369
00:13:28,230 --> 00:13:26,800
before you've gone to the atacama and

370
00:13:30,710 --> 00:13:28,240
some other places

371
00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:30,720
i wonder if you could connect to us

372
00:13:34,790 --> 00:13:32,639
some of the challenges one of doing

373
00:13:36,710 --> 00:13:34,800
field work and also how how we make

374
00:13:39,590 --> 00:13:36,720
connections from the field to some of

375
00:13:41,189 --> 00:13:39,600
the missions you've been involved in

376
00:13:43,269 --> 00:13:41,199
um well that's a really interesting

377
00:13:44,870 --> 00:13:43,279
question in terms of the atacama desert

378
00:13:47,670 --> 00:13:44,880
um i think uh

379
00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:47,680
about almost 20 years ago i was down

380
00:13:52,069 --> 00:13:50,240
there with uh raphael navarro gonzalez

381
00:13:54,069 --> 00:13:52,079
and a number of other researchers and

382
00:13:56,470 --> 00:13:54,079
and really um

383
00:13:59,189 --> 00:13:56,480
published the first paper in science you

384
00:14:00,470 --> 00:13:59,199
know that accommodates a mars analog and

385
00:14:03,110 --> 00:14:00,480
sort of set

386
00:14:05,269 --> 00:14:03,120
forth this whole you know trajectory of

387
00:14:08,550 --> 00:14:05,279
research that was done done down in that

388
00:14:11,430 --> 00:14:08,560
field um and and i think that the

389
00:14:13,350 --> 00:14:11,440
the the challenges of doing field work

390
00:14:15,430 --> 00:14:13,360
and how do you apply it to

391
00:14:17,829 --> 00:14:15,440
your science and technology are little

392
00:14:19,829 --> 00:14:17,839
they're two different things uh i think

393
00:14:21,430 --> 00:14:19,839
the technology implementation is a

394
00:14:23,509 --> 00:14:21,440
little more straightforward you go down

395
00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:23,519
the attic

396
00:14:28,949 --> 00:14:25,600
water dirt is very

397
00:14:31,189 --> 00:14:28,959
mars like you know physically it's very

398
00:14:33,670 --> 00:14:31,199
similar to mars

399
00:14:35,670 --> 00:14:33,680
minus atmosphere and things like that

400
00:14:38,150 --> 00:14:35,680
that allows you to do technology

401
00:14:40,949 --> 00:14:38,160
demonstration more challenging is the

402
00:14:43,030 --> 00:14:40,959
science um and in particular say for the

403
00:14:46,230 --> 00:14:43,040
atacama desert the atacama desert is

404
00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:46,240
vast and most of it is not mars-like in

405
00:14:51,269 --> 00:14:48,480
fact you always have to be considering

406
00:14:54,470 --> 00:14:51,279
from the science side um even you know

407
00:14:57,030 --> 00:14:54,480
where it seemingly seems to be like

408
00:14:59,509 --> 00:14:57,040
another planet really how is it and how

409
00:15:01,189 --> 00:14:59,519
is it you know not um and now i think

410
00:15:03,829 --> 00:15:01,199
that's really the challenge i think that

411
00:15:06,470 --> 00:15:03,839
it can uh it can be a little deceptive

412
00:15:08,949 --> 00:15:06,480
you think you're actually you get

413
00:15:11,590 --> 00:15:08,959
mars analog field work but in fact when

414
00:15:13,189 --> 00:15:11,600
you dig down the science or really

415
00:15:15,670 --> 00:15:13,199
fundamental differences that need to be

416
00:15:17,670 --> 00:15:15,680
understood otherwise uh you know when

417
00:15:20,629 --> 00:15:17,680
you do get to your destination you might

418
00:15:24,069 --> 00:15:20,639
be subject to to misinterpretations or

419
00:15:27,350 --> 00:15:24,079
uh you know not complete understanding

420
00:15:33,189 --> 00:15:30,310
biology graphic histories uh for our

421
00:15:35,350 --> 00:15:33,199
artistic works um where we explore some

422
00:15:38,230 --> 00:15:35,360
of the history of astrobiology uh at

423
00:15:40,069 --> 00:15:38,240
nasa uh peter doran is quoted as saying

424
00:15:41,990 --> 00:15:40,079
that analog environments have

425
00:15:43,670 --> 00:15:42,000
life-threatening characteristics that's

426
00:15:44,949 --> 00:15:43,680
what they share with other worlds i

427
00:15:45,990 --> 00:15:44,959
always like to also remind people that

428
00:15:47,990 --> 00:15:46,000
they have life-supporting

429
00:15:50,550 --> 00:15:48,000
characteristics too which is what makes

430
00:15:52,870 --> 00:15:50,560
them kind of habitable systems uh and so

431
00:15:55,509 --> 00:15:52,880
stephanie i wonder for you

432
00:15:57,430 --> 00:15:55,519
um and your role at goddard uh what does

433
00:15:59,030 --> 00:15:57,440
your team do to bring knowledge from

434
00:16:01,749 --> 00:15:59,040
field science into what we're actually

435
00:16:03,430 --> 00:16:01,759
using then to look uh for for life or

436
00:16:04,310 --> 00:16:03,440
for understanding geology in other

437
00:16:06,949 --> 00:16:04,320
worlds

438
00:16:09,590 --> 00:16:06,959
yeah oh i love this question um because

439
00:16:12,150 --> 00:16:09,600
it you know it really ties together

440
00:16:14,949 --> 00:16:12,160
field work is you know is one element of

441
00:16:17,430 --> 00:16:14,959
how you really prepare to go

442
00:16:19,829 --> 00:16:17,440
uh to another destination and your

443
00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:19,839
investigations there we have our um our

444
00:16:24,790 --> 00:16:22,079
gift team goddard instrument field team

445
00:16:27,110 --> 00:16:24,800
with members from ames as well

446
00:16:29,110 --> 00:16:27,120
who go out into a variety of

447
00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:29,120
environments that planetary analog

448
00:16:34,790 --> 00:16:31,920
environments um you know beyond atacama

449
00:16:36,790 --> 00:16:34,800
which is you know a canonical one and a

450
00:16:40,629 --> 00:16:36,800
really great one um but also you know

451
00:16:42,870 --> 00:16:40,639
other other areas to look at uh lunar um

452
00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:42,880
analog environments other mars analog

453
00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:44,720
environments and even you know some

454
00:16:48,550 --> 00:16:47,040
aspects it's really hard to emulate an

455
00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:48,560
ocean world

456
00:16:53,189 --> 00:16:51,440
um perfectly on earth

457
00:16:55,269 --> 00:16:53,199
but there are some regions of earth that

458
00:16:57,910 --> 00:16:55,279
are really hostile

459
00:17:00,389 --> 00:16:57,920
and um and really energy starved and are

460
00:17:02,790 --> 00:17:00,399
good analog environments as well and

461
00:17:04,390 --> 00:17:02,800
kind of represent the interface between

462
00:17:07,510 --> 00:17:04,400
you know maybe ice

463
00:17:10,309 --> 00:17:07,520
water energy sources um you know

464
00:17:11,829 --> 00:17:10,319
substrates in terms of rocks and

465
00:17:13,669 --> 00:17:11,839
mineralogy

466
00:17:15,909 --> 00:17:13,679
and and understanding uh that

467
00:17:18,789 --> 00:17:15,919
environment as a system

468
00:17:20,549 --> 00:17:18,799
really makes field work critical

469
00:17:24,069 --> 00:17:20,559
in putting together the pieces and

470
00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:24,079
practicing what that data interpretation

471
00:17:28,470 --> 00:17:26,640
would be like with even less information

472
00:17:30,230 --> 00:17:28,480
and less of an ability to go and service

473
00:17:32,150 --> 00:17:30,240
your instrument which you have a little

474
00:17:33,990 --> 00:17:32,160
bit ability when you're in the field

475
00:17:36,710 --> 00:17:34,000
right so um

476
00:17:37,830 --> 00:17:36,720
so uh the the teams that go out into the

477
00:17:40,310 --> 00:17:37,840
field

478
00:17:43,029 --> 00:17:40,320
the ones that goddard particularly who

479
00:17:44,789 --> 00:17:43,039
collaborate a lot with outside um

480
00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:44,799
teams as well

481
00:17:49,190 --> 00:17:46,480
they have the opportunity to bring back

482
00:17:51,430 --> 00:17:49,200
relevant samples to our laboratories at

483
00:17:54,390 --> 00:17:51,440
goddard as well we have

484
00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:54,400
chemistry and noble gas laboratories

485
00:17:58,870 --> 00:17:56,640
lots of analytical capabilities that

486
00:18:01,190 --> 00:17:58,880
goddard and with our partners

487
00:18:03,029 --> 00:18:01,200
to really help tease out all of the

488
00:18:04,549 --> 00:18:03,039
different aspects of what uh what a

489
00:18:06,630 --> 00:18:04,559
sample is made out of what the

490
00:18:08,630 --> 00:18:06,640
environment is telling you look at

491
00:18:11,430 --> 00:18:08,640
atmospheric phases you can look at rock

492
00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:11,440
phases you can look at the biology um

493
00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:13,440
and so so that's one benefit of field

494
00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:15,600
work is the sample collection

495
00:18:20,710 --> 00:18:18,960
aspect um you also have your testing uh

496
00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:20,720
in remote environments um that you're

497
00:18:25,830 --> 00:18:23,200
able to do to really put your instrument

498
00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:25,840
uh you know um through some tough

499
00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:27,360
challenges

500
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:30,000
on the way uh to maturing it um to be

501
00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:32,400
ready for space flight um and then

502
00:18:36,870 --> 00:18:34,480
there's like the operational side there

503
00:18:38,950 --> 00:18:36,880
are advantages um to being out into the

504
00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:38,960
field and testing you know operational

505
00:18:44,630 --> 00:18:42,160
sequences that really respond to the the

506
00:18:47,510 --> 00:18:44,640
um constraints that you have in

507
00:18:49,669 --> 00:18:47,520
planetary exploration on how much you

508
00:18:52,390 --> 00:18:49,679
can do in a particular message mission

509
00:18:56,070 --> 00:18:52,400
how quickly you can do each thing and

510
00:18:59,029 --> 00:18:56,080
how investigations build upon each other

511
00:19:00,789 --> 00:18:59,039
with analysis in between where you can

512
00:19:02,470 --> 00:19:00,799
to really get to the end goal of

513
00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:02,480
answering your your big science

514
00:19:05,830 --> 00:19:03,760
questions

515
00:19:08,150 --> 00:19:05,840
i want to mention one more thing our

516
00:19:10,310 --> 00:19:08,160
gift team has

517
00:19:11,990 --> 00:19:10,320
taken the opportunity to bring students

518
00:19:13,830 --> 00:19:12,000
into the field students not only in

519
00:19:16,470 --> 00:19:13,840
traditional fields but also in

520
00:19:19,590 --> 00:19:16,480
journalism programs and other programs

521
00:19:21,990 --> 00:19:19,600
um to engage uh you know

522
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:22,000
really all of the diverse disciplines

523
00:19:26,150 --> 00:19:23,600
that you really need to

524
00:19:28,549 --> 00:19:26,160
not only accomplish the science but

525
00:19:31,590 --> 00:19:28,559
communicate that science to a wider

526
00:19:33,029 --> 00:19:31,600
audience it's a really exciting uh it's

527
00:19:35,430 --> 00:19:33,039
a really exciting group to have at

528
00:19:36,390 --> 00:19:35,440
goddard and i'm privileged to work with

529
00:19:38,230 --> 00:19:36,400
them

530
00:19:39,990 --> 00:19:38,240
oh that's so cool now so glad you

531
00:19:41,669 --> 00:19:40,000
mentioned that a lot of our viewers are

532
00:19:43,350 --> 00:19:41,679
high school students undergraduate

533
00:19:45,190 --> 00:19:43,360
students graduate students who are very

534
00:19:47,190 --> 00:19:45,200
interested in how they can become

535
00:19:48,870 --> 00:19:47,200
involved in things like field work and

536
00:19:50,710 --> 00:19:48,880
instrument development and working at

537
00:19:52,549 --> 00:19:50,720
nasa and so it's great to have those

538
00:19:53,590 --> 00:19:52,559
connections for them to hear about

539
00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:53,600
and i do want to come back to something

540
00:19:56,870 --> 00:19:54,960
you mentioned about bringing samples

541
00:19:58,470 --> 00:19:56,880
back when you're in the field and

542
00:20:00,630 --> 00:19:58,480
bringing them back to goddard and other

543
00:20:01,990 --> 00:20:00,640
nasa centers for instance but but one

544
00:20:03,270 --> 00:20:02,000
thing you mentioned there too was this

545
00:20:04,870 --> 00:20:03,280
idea you know we're trying to understand

546
00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:04,880
the characteristics of the environment

547
00:20:08,950 --> 00:20:06,720
and relate that to these other places i

548
00:20:10,149 --> 00:20:08,960
get that question a lot in public talks

549
00:20:11,669 --> 00:20:10,159
when i'm speaking especially with the

550
00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:11,679
filter and then you know how is this

551
00:20:15,830 --> 00:20:13,840
like mars how is this like europa how is

552
00:20:17,830 --> 00:20:15,840
this like venus and they also asked like

553
00:20:20,310 --> 00:20:17,840
big questions and so we wanted to ask a

554
00:20:23,430 --> 00:20:20,320
big question of our twitter audience who

555
00:20:26,149 --> 00:20:23,440
follow along at nasa astrobio on twitter

556
00:20:28,230 --> 00:20:26,159
and we asked them the question of if we

557
00:20:30,070 --> 00:20:28,240
had an unlimited budget which is always

558
00:20:31,909 --> 00:20:30,080
kind of a grand weight hand waving thing

559
00:20:34,870 --> 00:20:31,919
but if we had an unlimited budget with

560
00:20:36,950 --> 00:20:34,880
nasa what scientific instrument would

561
00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:36,960
you develop to search for life beyond

562
00:20:42,230 --> 00:20:39,760
earth and we had so many really

563
00:20:44,310 --> 00:20:42,240
intriguing answers uh dr shawn

564
00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:44,320
damogoldman came on

565
00:20:48,310 --> 00:20:46,799
and mentioned the lavoir telescope which

566
00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:48,320
we have this idea to build a very cool

567
00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:50,400
large telescope that can look in uv

568
00:20:54,070 --> 00:20:52,480
infrared visible light and and do some

569
00:20:55,830 --> 00:20:54,080
really cool things uh several other

570
00:20:58,230 --> 00:20:55,840
people mentioned large telescopes like

571
00:21:00,310 --> 00:20:58,240
arecibo or building large telescopes in

572
00:21:02,230 --> 00:21:00,320
space we had people mention drilling

573
00:21:04,630 --> 00:21:02,240
through the ice on europa and different

574
00:21:06,549 --> 00:21:04,640
kinds of drills dr pauly lane

575
00:21:08,950 --> 00:21:06,559
from finland mentioned using a terahertz

576
00:21:11,830 --> 00:21:08,960
detector to explore biosignatures and

577
00:21:13,430 --> 00:21:11,840
watery plumes from enceladus dr option

578
00:21:15,029 --> 00:21:13,440
khan mentioned

579
00:21:16,950 --> 00:21:15,039
building a high-end instrument for

580
00:21:18,710 --> 00:21:16,960
looking at chirality and even for

581
00:21:20,789 --> 00:21:18,720
concentrating biomolecules or

582
00:21:22,870 --> 00:21:20,799
biosignatures which i thought was pretty

583
00:21:25,510 --> 00:21:22,880
cool we had several answers like things

584
00:21:28,149 --> 00:21:25,520
like warp drive um you know some higher

585
00:21:29,750 --> 00:21:28,159
end stuff that's kind of out there um

586
00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:29,760
maybe the funniest ones though we had

587
00:21:33,990 --> 00:21:30,799
one person mentioned that they would

588
00:21:35,909 --> 00:21:34,000
build a hal 9000 um which that'd be

589
00:21:38,390 --> 00:21:35,919
interesting like in 2001 a space odyssey

590
00:21:41,190 --> 00:21:38,400
let's just not lie to it um and then

591
00:21:42,710 --> 00:21:41,200
someone else chris colosse uh shared

592
00:21:44,549 --> 00:21:42,720
with us a picture from pirates of the

593
00:21:45,990 --> 00:21:44,559
caribbean at world's end where the two

594
00:21:48,390 --> 00:21:46,000
captains are battling over who has the

595
00:21:49,590 --> 00:21:48,400
longest telescope um which i thought was

596
00:21:50,789 --> 00:21:49,600
kind of interesting for some of what

597
00:21:53,990 --> 00:21:50,799
we've done in the past in building

598
00:21:56,230 --> 00:21:54,000
really big telescopes um so for both of

599
00:21:59,270 --> 00:21:56,240
you just a fun question if you had an

600
00:22:01,510 --> 00:21:59,280
unlimited budget um what instrument

601
00:22:02,549 --> 00:22:01,520
would you want to build and send out

602
00:22:04,220 --> 00:22:02,559
there

603
00:22:08,870 --> 00:22:04,230
stephanie how about you

604
00:22:13,990 --> 00:22:11,750
so much of my life is like responding to

605
00:22:17,990 --> 00:22:14,000
the constraints that are put on me this

606
00:22:21,750 --> 00:22:19,350
whatever you think you could imagine

607
00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:21,760
would be awesome

608
00:22:30,470 --> 00:22:22,559
i

609
00:22:34,789 --> 00:22:31,990
because they really complement each

610
00:22:38,549 --> 00:22:34,799
other you know look at mineralogy

611
00:22:41,669 --> 00:22:38,559
petrology you know the organic chemistry

612
00:22:43,750 --> 00:22:41,679
from various angles prebiotic chemistry

613
00:22:46,630 --> 00:22:43,760
what can be biological you know what can

614
00:22:49,510 --> 00:22:46,640
you tell um from the refractory uh

615
00:22:51,590 --> 00:22:49,520
components of the organic composition um

616
00:22:53,350 --> 00:22:51,600
what about the atmospheric chemistry

617
00:22:54,470 --> 00:22:53,360
what about the noble gases what can they

618
00:22:56,390 --> 00:22:54,480
tell you about the evolution of a

619
00:22:59,110 --> 00:22:56,400
particular planetary body where it came

620
00:23:00,630 --> 00:22:59,120
from what's happened to it um all that

621
00:23:03,029 --> 00:23:00,640
ultimately

622
00:23:05,590 --> 00:23:03,039
our goal right is to

623
00:23:08,549 --> 00:23:05,600
is to build upon mission

624
00:23:10,870 --> 00:23:08,559
ask question upon question to answer as

625
00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:10,880
many of these questions as possible so

626
00:23:15,270 --> 00:23:12,400
that we know as much as possible and

627
00:23:17,110 --> 00:23:15,280
we're as confident as possible about the

628
00:23:18,789 --> 00:23:17,120
conclusions and interpretations that

629
00:23:22,070 --> 00:23:18,799
we're drawing from the data sets that we

630
00:23:24,390 --> 00:23:22,080
have which are just by nature limited um

631
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:24,400
uh when uh when you when you work

632
00:23:27,909 --> 00:23:25,520
in situ

633
00:23:29,590 --> 00:23:27,919
the finite volume power

634
00:23:31,350 --> 00:23:29,600
absolutely and there's so many cool

635
00:23:33,110 --> 00:23:31,360
concepts and things being developed out

636
00:23:35,590 --> 00:23:33,120
there i would toss in the uranus and

637
00:23:37,590 --> 00:23:35,600
neptune missions as well just for fun um

638
00:23:39,350 --> 00:23:37,600
richard how about you unlimited budget

639
00:23:41,510 --> 00:23:39,360
what would you build

640
00:23:43,110 --> 00:23:41,520
um well if i had an unlimited budget i

641
00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:43,120
might approach it a little differently

642
00:23:47,029 --> 00:23:44,880
you know i i think the ideas that we

643
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:47,039
just heard coming in from the community

644
00:23:51,669 --> 00:23:48,960
are fantastic and that's really the

645
00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:51,679
purpose of the workshop to get new ideas

646
00:23:56,149 --> 00:23:54,320
and there are different combinations of

647
00:23:59,110 --> 00:23:56,159
instruments approaches that you could

648
00:24:01,669 --> 00:23:59,120
use for you know searching for life and

649
00:24:04,070 --> 00:24:01,679
they might vary depending on your target

650
00:24:06,470 --> 00:24:04,080
if i had an unlimited budget though i

651
00:24:08,470 --> 00:24:06,480
honestly would probably take a core set

652
00:24:10,310 --> 00:24:08,480
of instruments and really we've been

653
00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:10,320
thinking about this for a long time so

654
00:24:16,070 --> 00:24:12,960
we have some really solid approaches

655
00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:16,080
and rather than spend a lot of money on

656
00:24:20,070 --> 00:24:17,520
you know developing an instrument i

657
00:24:22,950 --> 00:24:20,080
would spend that money to make many many

658
00:24:25,350 --> 00:24:22,960
many copies of that same instrument and

659
00:24:27,110 --> 00:24:25,360
send it to many many many places so i

660
00:24:28,470 --> 00:24:27,120
think that the need in terms of budget

661
00:24:30,310 --> 00:24:28,480
is actually

662
00:24:33,029 --> 00:24:30,320
more missions

663
00:24:36,230 --> 00:24:33,039
rather than necessarily bigger budget

664
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:36,240
for instruments um you know the the more

665
00:24:40,470 --> 00:24:38,400
we can look the frequency that we can

666
00:24:42,149 --> 00:24:40,480
look increases the probability of

667
00:24:44,549 --> 00:24:42,159
success so that's how i would spend the

668
00:24:46,470 --> 00:24:44,559
money instead of a mission every couple

669
00:24:47,350 --> 00:24:46,480
of years i would have a mission every

670
00:24:50,230 --> 00:24:47,360
month

671
00:24:51,590 --> 00:24:50,240
oh interesting i love that one

672
00:24:52,950 --> 00:24:51,600
budget right so we can just you know we

673
00:24:56,149 --> 00:24:52,960
can do a mission every month and that's

674
00:24:57,350 --> 00:24:56,159
fantastic i love it um so i i do have a

675
00:24:58,630 --> 00:24:57,360
few more minutes in my own questioning

676
00:25:00,549 --> 00:24:58,640
here with you i want to remind our

677
00:25:02,870 --> 00:25:00,559
audience watching on youtube that you

678
00:25:03,990 --> 00:25:02,880
can ask questions in the chat right now

679
00:25:05,990 --> 00:25:04,000
and they will come through to my

680
00:25:07,430 --> 00:25:06,000
teleprompter for me to ask of doctors

681
00:25:09,110 --> 00:25:07,440
getty and quinn

682
00:25:10,950 --> 00:25:09,120
i see some questions coming in already

683
00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:10,960
so please keep those coming

684
00:25:14,310 --> 00:25:12,720
i want to come back now stephanie you

685
00:25:16,470 --> 00:25:14,320
mentioned this idea of bringing samples

686
00:25:18,390 --> 00:25:16,480
back from the field to maybe our you

687
00:25:20,310 --> 00:25:18,400
know our higher precision higher end

688
00:25:22,230 --> 00:25:20,320
instrumentation that we have in the

689
00:25:24,470 --> 00:25:22,240
laboratory at nasa centers and other

690
00:25:26,789 --> 00:25:24,480
institutions um but you know when it

691
00:25:28,630 --> 00:25:26,799
comes to returning samples from space

692
00:25:30,549 --> 00:25:28,640
that's a much different process it's far

693
00:25:32,470 --> 00:25:30,559
more expensive there's infrastructure

694
00:25:34,310 --> 00:25:32,480
that has to be built around getting

695
00:25:36,149 --> 00:25:34,320
missions out there to collect samples

696
00:25:37,669 --> 00:25:36,159
and bring them back and in the case of

697
00:25:39,029 --> 00:25:37,679
mars for instance there's a large

698
00:25:40,950 --> 00:25:39,039
infrastructure that we still have to

699
00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:40,960
develop to to get samples back from

700
00:25:44,310 --> 00:25:43,200
perseverance right now i'm wondering if

701
00:25:46,630 --> 00:25:44,320
you could talk a bit about the

702
00:25:48,470 --> 00:25:46,640
trade-offs of you know developing these

703
00:25:49,909 --> 00:25:48,480
infrastructures for sample return

704
00:25:52,149 --> 00:25:49,919
compared to developing better

705
00:25:53,029 --> 00:25:52,159
infrastructure for instrumentation in

706
00:25:56,230 --> 00:25:53,039
space

707
00:25:58,630 --> 00:25:56,240
yeah i mean the answer is both please um

708
00:26:00,950 --> 00:25:58,640
obviously we can do so much

709
00:26:03,029 --> 00:26:00,960
with laboratory instruments that just

710
00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:03,039
can't be done

711
00:26:07,029 --> 00:26:05,440
but at the same time when you're

712
00:26:09,750 --> 00:26:07,039
exploring

713
00:26:11,190 --> 00:26:09,760
scientifically a new environment um you

714
00:26:13,269 --> 00:26:11,200
know i think

715
00:26:15,350 --> 00:26:13,279
the best approach is really an interplay

716
00:26:17,110 --> 00:26:15,360
between in-situ emissions and sample

717
00:26:18,870 --> 00:26:17,120
return missions where is possible i mean

718
00:26:20,789 --> 00:26:18,880
there are some sample return missions

719
00:26:22,630 --> 00:26:20,799
that are kind of beyond uh near-term

720
00:26:25,190 --> 00:26:22,640
capabilities obviously just for

721
00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:25,200
proximity reasons um

722
00:26:29,510 --> 00:26:27,679
but even for return missions i mean

723
00:26:31,029 --> 00:26:29,520
without the in-situ

724
00:26:32,549 --> 00:26:31,039
science it can be really hard to

725
00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:32,559
convince yourself that you're going to

726
00:26:35,830 --> 00:26:34,320
the right location i mean

727
00:26:37,350 --> 00:26:35,840
that you're picking up the best sample

728
00:26:38,950 --> 00:26:37,360
for return to earth and as you know

729
00:26:41,350 --> 00:26:38,960
there's a lot as you mentioned graham

730
00:26:43,669 --> 00:26:41,360
there's a lot riding on that return

731
00:26:45,110 --> 00:26:43,679
right so you want to know enough

732
00:26:46,470 --> 00:26:45,120
about the environment to be able to

733
00:26:48,470 --> 00:26:46,480
interpret the results like we were

734
00:26:50,470 --> 00:26:48,480
talking about before and that can't be

735
00:26:53,110 --> 00:26:50,480
done without thinking about the science

736
00:26:55,269 --> 00:26:53,120
of the system and so that really

737
00:26:57,669 --> 00:26:55,279
requires sustained questioning of like

738
00:27:00,470 --> 00:26:57,679
what what that system is and how it came

739
00:27:03,190 --> 00:27:00,480
to be and how it's different from other

740
00:27:05,029 --> 00:27:03,200
places we've seen before and

741
00:27:07,669 --> 00:27:05,039
you know richard you mentioned too all

742
00:27:10,549 --> 00:27:07,679
planetary environments are not one thing

743
00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:10,559
about mars and how varied the surface

744
00:27:15,110 --> 00:27:12,320
geology is and we we haven't even

745
00:27:17,110 --> 00:27:15,120
started to explore the subsurface right

746
00:27:19,190 --> 00:27:17,120
and we think about an ocean world like

747
00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:19,200
enceladus um there are several

748
00:27:24,710 --> 00:27:22,320
environmental targets there um the plume

749
00:27:26,710 --> 00:27:24,720
at the southern pole the icy surface

750
00:27:29,430 --> 00:27:26,720
that expresses signatures of the ocean

751
00:27:32,149 --> 00:27:29,440
potentially directly visiting the ocean

752
00:27:33,830 --> 00:27:32,159
um you know in the future so no single

753
00:27:36,149 --> 00:27:33,840
mission can visit all of those

754
00:27:37,430 --> 00:27:36,159
environments in situ but we we have to

755
00:27:38,710 --> 00:27:37,440
like be

756
00:27:40,350 --> 00:27:38,720
um

757
00:27:44,870 --> 00:27:40,360
we have to be

758
00:27:47,430 --> 00:27:44,880
our curiosity has to

759
00:27:48,950 --> 00:27:47,440
be somewhat happy with building upon

760
00:27:50,950 --> 00:27:48,960
those questions that

761
00:27:53,269 --> 00:27:50,960
get answered you know in a sequential

762
00:27:55,029 --> 00:27:53,279
way um with missions building upon

763
00:27:56,710 --> 00:27:55,039
previous missions and then you know

764
00:27:58,310 --> 00:27:56,720
getting inspired by the next set of

765
00:28:00,950 --> 00:27:58,320
questions um

766
00:28:02,870 --> 00:28:00,960
so i i think that there's definitely

767
00:28:05,590 --> 00:28:02,880
a good role and

768
00:28:07,269 --> 00:28:05,600
importance to um to both in situ and

769
00:28:08,950 --> 00:28:07,279
sample return

770
00:28:10,549 --> 00:28:08,960
i love that so much and i love that you

771
00:28:12,230 --> 00:28:10,559
have missions building upon admissions

772
00:28:13,990 --> 00:28:12,240
and kind of you know expanding what we

773
00:28:15,029 --> 00:28:14,000
know and and you know what you said

774
00:28:17,029 --> 00:28:15,039
there are two kind of minds this

775
00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:17,039
importance of context in in the

776
00:28:20,630 --> 00:28:18,720
environment and understanding where

777
00:28:21,990 --> 00:28:20,640
these examples come from all three of us

778
00:28:24,549 --> 00:28:22,000
are part of the center for life

779
00:28:26,710 --> 00:28:24,559
detection uh headquartered at nasa ames

780
00:28:28,870 --> 00:28:26,720
which is one of the three main pieces of

781
00:28:30,549 --> 00:28:28,880
the network for life detection or enfold

782
00:28:31,830 --> 00:28:30,559
um you know and with the center for life

783
00:28:32,950 --> 00:28:31,840
detection right now we're building

784
00:28:34,870 --> 00:28:32,960
something called the life detection

785
00:28:36,310 --> 00:28:34,880
knowledge base which will allow

786
00:28:39,110 --> 00:28:36,320
scientists in the community to come

787
00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:39,120
together and to explore not just you

788
00:28:43,350 --> 00:28:41,120
know the the biogenicity of certain

789
00:28:44,789 --> 00:28:43,360
features but also their context which is

790
00:28:46,389 --> 00:28:44,799
really important

791
00:28:47,830 --> 00:28:46,399
and richard for for you you're not only

792
00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:47,840
a part of the center for life detection

793
00:28:50,230 --> 00:28:49,440
but also on the steering committee for

794
00:28:51,830 --> 00:28:50,240
now

795
00:28:55,190 --> 00:28:51,840
um i wonder if you could talk a bit

796
00:28:57,430 --> 00:28:55,200
about um the maybe the the challenges of

797
00:28:59,110 --> 00:28:57,440
taking instruments to icy worlds and

798
00:29:00,870 --> 00:28:59,120
using them in those places and in the

799
00:29:02,149 --> 00:29:00,880
context of those environments which are

800
00:29:04,070 --> 00:29:02,159
very different from the environments we

801
00:29:06,230 --> 00:29:04,080
have here on earth

802
00:29:07,909 --> 00:29:06,240
sure absolutely but if one i would like

803
00:29:10,470 --> 00:29:07,919
to just add a little bit to the question

804
00:29:13,990 --> 00:29:10,480
that you that you posed to stephanie

805
00:29:15,750 --> 00:29:14,000
because as a you know uh

806
00:29:18,149 --> 00:29:15,760
somebody who's

807
00:29:20,950 --> 00:29:18,159
his career has been in situ exploration

808
00:29:24,070 --> 00:29:20,960
now initially sample return i thought

809
00:29:25,269 --> 00:29:24,080
well it's expensive it's unnecessary

810
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:25,279
but my

811
00:29:28,789 --> 00:29:27,120
thought has shifted over years because i

812
00:29:30,230 --> 00:29:28,799
think what we've learned from mars

813
00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:30,240
exploration

814
00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:36,870
an expression of the presence of life is

815
00:29:41,909 --> 00:29:38,640
going to be subtle

816
00:29:44,549 --> 00:29:41,919
um and so that makes it important to

817
00:29:47,110 --> 00:29:44,559
bring samples back because as much as we

818
00:29:48,470 --> 00:29:47,120
learn uh with in-situ instruments and

819
00:29:50,870 --> 00:29:48,480
even if we

820
00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:50,880
uh you know when we hit on a signal and

821
00:29:53,990 --> 00:29:53,039
we think okay we've done it we've found

822
00:29:55,269 --> 00:29:54,000
it

823
00:29:57,110 --> 00:29:55,279
still those

824
00:29:59,029 --> 00:29:57,120
it has to be confirmed and i think that

825
00:30:01,909 --> 00:29:59,039
confirmation really does need to be done

826
00:30:04,549 --> 00:30:01,919
in the laboratory um so i am like

827
00:30:07,510 --> 00:30:04,559
stephanie said i think both are hand in

828
00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:07,520
hand um now the question about ocean

829
00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:09,760
worlds and and in recent years i have

830
00:30:14,710 --> 00:30:12,480
pivoted um you know to to looking

831
00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:14,720
farther out to those types of missions

832
00:30:16,950 --> 00:30:15,760
and

833
00:30:19,269 --> 00:30:16,960
um

834
00:30:21,269 --> 00:30:19,279
again going into you know environmental

835
00:30:23,110 --> 00:30:21,279
context of course the

836
00:30:25,510 --> 00:30:23,120
the environments are

837
00:30:27,909 --> 00:30:25,520
radically different compared to how we

838
00:30:29,909 --> 00:30:27,919
would explore for say for mars

839
00:30:32,389 --> 00:30:29,919
exploration particularly

840
00:30:34,470 --> 00:30:32,399
um a destination like the european

841
00:30:36,070 --> 00:30:34,480
surface which was a

842
00:30:37,590 --> 00:30:36,080
focus of a potential mission in the

843
00:30:39,590 --> 00:30:37,600
future where you have this incredible

844
00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:39,600
radiation

845
00:30:43,510 --> 00:30:41,440
environment that really

846
00:30:45,029 --> 00:30:43,520
alters and distorts

847
00:30:48,070 --> 00:30:45,039
um you know

848
00:30:50,789 --> 00:30:48,080
any feature or any artifact that you may

849
00:30:51,909 --> 00:30:50,799
expect to see relative to the presence

850
00:30:54,310 --> 00:30:51,919
of life

851
00:30:55,669 --> 00:30:54,320
and you know going back i think we see

852
00:30:59,029 --> 00:30:55,679
on mars

853
00:31:01,909 --> 00:30:59,039
um the the tremendous um challenges that

854
00:31:03,909 --> 00:31:01,919
the radiation environment imposes on the

855
00:31:05,669 --> 00:31:03,919
search for life or even just doing the

856
00:31:08,149 --> 00:31:05,679
science there from the whole

857
00:31:09,590 --> 00:31:08,159
uh elevated oxidation chemistry the

858
00:31:11,190 --> 00:31:09,600
chlorate the

859
00:31:13,269 --> 00:31:11,200
um the

860
00:31:15,990 --> 00:31:13,279
search for organic signatures that have

861
00:31:18,630 --> 00:31:16,000
been altered both

862
00:31:21,669 --> 00:31:18,640
in the environment and also in the

863
00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:21,679
sample processing during um

864
00:31:26,470 --> 00:31:23,440
during exploration

865
00:31:28,470 --> 00:31:26,480
those challenges are just compounded

866
00:31:29,909 --> 00:31:28,480
when we move out to ocean worlds

867
00:31:33,669 --> 00:31:29,919
particularly

868
00:31:34,710 --> 00:31:33,679
moving out to a place like europa

869
00:31:37,110 --> 00:31:34,720
very cool

870
00:31:41,110 --> 00:31:39,430
with cassini very lucky to have the iron

871
00:31:42,870 --> 00:31:41,120
and neutral mass spectrometer on because

872
00:31:44,789 --> 00:31:42,880
you could actually fly through these

873
00:31:46,470 --> 00:31:44,799
plumes of water and there might be

874
00:31:47,830 --> 00:31:46,480
something from europa it's not of the

875
00:31:49,830 --> 00:31:47,840
question there's actually some data that

876
00:31:51,269 --> 00:31:49,840
has suggested there could be european

877
00:31:52,870 --> 00:31:51,279
plumes as well

878
00:31:54,230 --> 00:31:52,880
um and so one instrument for instance

879
00:31:56,230 --> 00:31:54,240
being developed for europa clipper

880
00:31:58,230 --> 00:31:56,240
called suda uh could could not just

881
00:32:00,630 --> 00:31:58,240
explore the dust and materials around

882
00:32:02,549 --> 00:32:00,640
europa but also potentially explore for

883
00:32:04,230 --> 00:32:02,559
plumes there and so there's a bit of

884
00:32:06,070 --> 00:32:04,240
serendipity too that comes into this

885
00:32:08,149 --> 00:32:06,080
right with discovering plumes from an

886
00:32:09,830 --> 00:32:08,159
ocean world that we didn't expect and

887
00:32:11,509 --> 00:32:09,840
who knows if we go to uranus or neptune

888
00:32:13,350 --> 00:32:11,519
what other weird things are happening on

889
00:32:14,870 --> 00:32:13,360
moons in our solar system that we have

890
00:32:16,950 --> 00:32:14,880
no idea about

891
00:32:18,230 --> 00:32:16,960
so i wonder for both of you

892
00:32:19,750 --> 00:32:18,240
before i open it up to the audience

893
00:32:21,830 --> 00:32:19,760
questions here if we could just briefly

894
00:32:24,230 --> 00:32:21,840
talk about the future of instrument

895
00:32:25,669 --> 00:32:24,240
development and data analysis

896
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:25,679
what are the key things you think we

897
00:32:30,070 --> 00:32:28,080
should be prepared for or maybe be open

898
00:32:32,230 --> 00:32:30,080
to in the very near future

899
00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:32,240
um and stephanie i think i'll start with

900
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:32,960
you

901
00:32:38,789 --> 00:32:38,000
are key things we should be prepared for

902
00:32:40,230 --> 00:32:38,799
yeah

903
00:32:43,029 --> 00:32:40,240
um i

904
00:32:44,070 --> 00:32:43,039
you know i think go

905
00:32:47,750 --> 00:32:44,080
moving

906
00:32:48,470 --> 00:32:47,760
forward in um in in situ analysis i

907
00:32:51,430 --> 00:32:48,480
think

908
00:32:52,389 --> 00:32:51,440
what you touched on there graham with um

909
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:52,399
being

910
00:32:58,470 --> 00:32:55,120
prepared for what the what the uh what

911
00:33:01,269 --> 00:32:58,480
the environment has to present to you uh

912
00:33:01,990 --> 00:33:01,279
and being able to um you know to adapt

913
00:33:03,350 --> 00:33:02,000
to

914
00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:03,360
uh

915
00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:04,720
really what this

916
00:33:08,789 --> 00:33:06,480
what the sampling

917
00:33:10,630 --> 00:33:08,799
uh needs to look like to get the right

918
00:33:13,750 --> 00:33:10,640
sample into

919
00:33:16,149 --> 00:33:13,760
into your instrumentation uh is is a

920
00:33:18,310 --> 00:33:16,159
really important factor

921
00:33:20,789 --> 00:33:18,320
i think that for you know as we become

922
00:33:24,789 --> 00:33:20,799
more sophisticated in the way that we

923
00:33:27,430 --> 00:33:24,799
explore certain environments um we we

924
00:33:28,789 --> 00:33:27,440
have the opportunity to you know build

925
00:33:30,789 --> 00:33:28,799
from um

926
00:33:33,350 --> 00:33:30,799
you know kind of you know an approach

927
00:33:35,190 --> 00:33:33,360
where you learn what you can from a

928
00:33:37,269 --> 00:33:35,200
particular fraction that's accessible

929
00:33:39,430 --> 00:33:37,279
with what with the instrumentation that

930
00:33:42,549 --> 00:33:39,440
you have to trying to get the most ease

931
00:33:44,230 --> 00:33:42,559
out the most information out of um out

932
00:33:45,909 --> 00:33:44,240
of the samples that are accessible so

933
00:33:47,269 --> 00:33:45,919
that means you know paying really close

934
00:33:51,190 --> 00:33:47,279
attention to

935
00:33:52,789 --> 00:33:51,200
how cleanly you're sampling um how

936
00:33:54,870 --> 00:33:52,799
how carefully you're treating that

937
00:33:57,509 --> 00:33:54,880
sample as you're moving it between

938
00:34:00,710 --> 00:33:57,519
different elements of um of a payload

939
00:34:03,190 --> 00:34:00,720
for example making taking great care not

940
00:34:05,029 --> 00:34:03,200
to alter that sample and and confusing

941
00:34:06,789 --> 00:34:05,039
yourself what you're seeing at the end

942
00:34:09,510 --> 00:34:06,799
of the day and then just really making

943
00:34:12,950 --> 00:34:09,520
the most of all that sample has to offer

944
00:34:14,069 --> 00:34:12,960
to you um i think um

945
00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:14,079
you know i think

946
00:34:20,310 --> 00:34:16,800
there's there's a there's an evolution

947
00:34:23,589 --> 00:34:20,320
in instrumentation um and uh and i'm

948
00:34:25,750 --> 00:34:23,599
really excited to see the energy um that

949
00:34:27,589 --> 00:34:25,760
uh that we're hearing in this workshop

950
00:34:30,230 --> 00:34:27,599
and from the community and really

951
00:34:32,470 --> 00:34:30,240
treating the hard problems about how to

952
00:34:34,470 --> 00:34:32,480
get um the right sample and the right

953
00:34:35,990 --> 00:34:34,480
fidelity of sample into our

954
00:34:37,510 --> 00:34:36,000
instrumentation

955
00:34:41,669 --> 00:34:37,520
yeah it's always the scientists right

956
00:34:43,750 --> 00:34:41,679
samples um it reminds me an avatar

957
00:34:44,950 --> 00:34:43,760
did we get samples you know we need to

958
00:34:46,069 --> 00:34:44,960
know the samples we also need to know

959
00:34:47,750 --> 00:34:46,079
where they come from and how they've

960
00:34:48,710 --> 00:34:47,760
been treated and i really appreciate

961
00:34:50,149 --> 00:34:48,720
that

962
00:34:51,990 --> 00:34:50,159
um richard how about you what do you

963
00:34:53,030 --> 00:34:52,000
think is the future for for instrument

964
00:34:55,510 --> 00:34:53,040
development

965
00:34:57,030 --> 00:34:55,520
well i i agree 100 with what stephanie

966
00:34:58,630 --> 00:34:57,040
just said i think you know a lot of

967
00:35:00,069 --> 00:34:58,640
times when we talk about instruments

968
00:35:01,349 --> 00:35:00,079
you'll hear people say well my

969
00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:01,359
instrument has

970
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:04,160
a sensitivity of parts per trillion

971
00:35:07,910 --> 00:35:06,240
or you know it can do this

972
00:35:09,270 --> 00:35:07,920
that and really what you're talking

973
00:35:10,390 --> 00:35:09,280
about there is i'm talking about the

974
00:35:12,390 --> 00:35:10,400
detector

975
00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:12,400
they're you know so they're summing up

976
00:35:16,310 --> 00:35:14,160
their instrument in terms of the

977
00:35:20,069 --> 00:35:16,320
detector but stephanie just pointed out

978
00:35:22,870 --> 00:35:20,079
really the challenges is sample access

979
00:35:24,150 --> 00:35:22,880
sample handling and sample processing

980
00:35:26,390 --> 00:35:24,160
because if you have an instrument

981
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:26,400
particularly you know an in-situ

982
00:35:31,190 --> 00:35:28,480
instrument that needs to ingest or it

983
00:35:32,470 --> 00:35:31,200
needs to take a sample uh to get a

984
00:35:34,710 --> 00:35:32,480
result

985
00:35:37,430 --> 00:35:34,720
the form of that sample is really what

986
00:35:39,270 --> 00:35:37,440
drives your ability to make a proper

987
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:39,280
analysis and proper interpretation of

988
00:35:46,230 --> 00:35:42,240
the data so i agree 100 the real

989
00:35:49,430 --> 00:35:46,240
challenges is to future exploration is

990
00:35:51,109 --> 00:35:49,440
is the sample um acquisition sample

991
00:35:53,349 --> 00:35:51,119
processing

992
00:35:55,030 --> 00:35:53,359
very cool uh i i

993
00:35:57,030 --> 00:35:55,040
i view so much right now and i have so

994
00:35:58,870 --> 00:35:57,040
many more questions of my own but i also

995
00:36:00,790 --> 00:35:58,880
have to be a good host and respect our

996
00:36:03,109 --> 00:36:00,800
audience and allow them to ask some

997
00:36:05,430 --> 00:36:03,119
questions too and when one actually came

998
00:36:06,950 --> 00:36:05,440
to us through an email at info

999
00:36:08,950 --> 00:36:06,960
secondnet.org

1000
00:36:11,910 --> 00:36:08,960
was from a person who i know named bob

1001
00:36:14,069 --> 00:36:11,920
bruner he's an 83 year old man who works

1002
00:36:15,430 --> 00:36:14,079
as a volunteer at our local museum

1003
00:36:17,910 --> 00:36:15,440
here in denver the denver museum of

1004
00:36:20,150 --> 00:36:17,920
nature and science he's been developing

1005
00:36:21,829 --> 00:36:20,160
this idea for some time of sharing with

1006
00:36:24,310 --> 00:36:21,839
children and families the kinds of

1007
00:36:25,829 --> 00:36:24,320
minerals we look for on mars but he

1008
00:36:28,630 --> 00:36:25,839
wanted to know since it's not his area

1009
00:36:31,510 --> 00:36:28,640
of expertise um about spectrometers that

1010
00:36:34,710 --> 00:36:31,520
we use in orbit and i wonder if you

1011
00:36:36,310 --> 00:36:34,720
could speak maybe to remote sensing uh

1012
00:36:38,310 --> 00:36:36,320
from orbit or you know even from

1013
00:36:42,230 --> 00:36:38,320
telescopes from far away compared to

1014
00:36:45,109 --> 00:36:43,430
and that could be for either of you

1015
00:36:47,430 --> 00:36:45,119
honestly

1016
00:36:49,670 --> 00:36:47,440
well i mean

1017
00:36:51,670 --> 00:36:49,680
i'll take a step here i mean that's a

1018
00:36:53,910 --> 00:36:51,680
tough question because i am really an

1019
00:36:57,430 --> 00:36:53,920
institute you know where i want a sample

1020
00:37:00,870 --> 00:36:57,440
i want the instrument to touch it

1021
00:37:01,750 --> 00:37:00,880
um interrogate it um i i think that that

1022
00:37:03,910 --> 00:37:01,760
you know

1023
00:37:05,270 --> 00:37:03,920
remote sensing is gonna in terms of

1024
00:37:07,030 --> 00:37:05,280
light detection

1025
00:37:08,630 --> 00:37:07,040
you know eventually will be particularly

1026
00:37:09,430 --> 00:37:08,640
relevant for

1027
00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:09,440
um

1028
00:37:14,069 --> 00:37:11,520
for exoplanets and looking at

1029
00:37:15,589 --> 00:37:14,079
atmospheres and trying to understand um

1030
00:37:17,670 --> 00:37:15,599
you know are these

1031
00:37:19,910 --> 00:37:17,680
is do they have atmospheres that are

1032
00:37:21,589 --> 00:37:19,920
indicative processes that might suggest

1033
00:37:25,109 --> 00:37:21,599
the presence of life

1034
00:37:27,270 --> 00:37:26,069
you know

1035
00:37:29,270 --> 00:37:27,280
remotely

1036
00:37:31,270 --> 00:37:29,280
in terms of mars just our ability to

1037
00:37:34,069 --> 00:37:31,280
understand the whole planet and really

1038
00:37:37,670 --> 00:37:34,079
when we landed there in 1976 we saw this

1039
00:37:40,390 --> 00:37:37,680
landscape of of just you know

1040
00:37:41,990 --> 00:37:40,400
red dust everywhere and for a long time

1041
00:37:43,829 --> 00:37:42,000
people thought well that's the planet

1042
00:37:46,310 --> 00:37:43,839
but really it was the remote sensing

1043
00:37:48,630 --> 00:37:46,320
that really before we even got back to

1044
00:37:50,390 --> 00:37:48,640
the planet again you know 20 more than

1045
00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:50,400
20 years later

1046
00:37:54,069 --> 00:37:52,320
really really gave us an in-depth

1047
00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:54,079
understanding of the habitability the

1048
00:37:59,190 --> 00:37:56,640
potential for life so understanding

1049
00:38:00,950 --> 00:37:59,200
those mineral assemblages the geology is

1050
00:38:02,630 --> 00:38:00,960
really critical and that's all achieved

1051
00:38:03,990 --> 00:38:02,640
through remote sensing

1052
00:38:06,310 --> 00:38:04,000
not all of them

1053
00:38:07,589 --> 00:38:06,320
and i'll just add to that richard you

1054
00:38:10,390 --> 00:38:07,599
know what you're

1055
00:38:12,790 --> 00:38:10,400
you're you're referring to also just the

1056
00:38:15,190 --> 00:38:12,800
the connection i think between what you

1057
00:38:17,990 --> 00:38:15,200
can learn remote sensing on a planetary

1058
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:18,000
global scale particularly if you're if

1059
00:38:23,270 --> 00:38:20,160
you have an orbiter which is like the

1060
00:38:27,270 --> 00:38:23,280
dream of many geologists is to have

1061
00:38:29,670 --> 00:38:27,280
global mapping um of of an entire planet

1062
00:38:31,829 --> 00:38:29,680
at sufficient resolution so that you can

1063
00:38:33,510 --> 00:38:31,839
you know just decipher some of the

1064
00:38:36,390 --> 00:38:33,520
signatures on the surface and trace it

1065
00:38:38,870 --> 00:38:36,400
back to geological processes that that

1066
00:38:42,150 --> 00:38:38,880
we might already know and then that

1067
00:38:45,109 --> 00:38:42,160
gives you such amazing context for

1068
00:38:48,470 --> 00:38:45,119
in-situ exploration because oftentimes

1069
00:38:50,950 --> 00:38:48,480
you're picking one place or one region

1070
00:38:54,150 --> 00:38:50,960
of the surface of the surface of a

1071
00:38:56,390 --> 00:38:54,160
planet and um you know

1072
00:38:59,270 --> 00:38:56,400
there is surface mobility but but often

1073
00:39:01,990 --> 00:38:59,280
you nee when you want to understand how

1074
00:39:04,630 --> 00:39:02,000
this um this particular region or

1075
00:39:07,430 --> 00:39:04,640
landing site um you know relates to the

1076
00:39:08,950 --> 00:39:07,440
planetary and uh processes at large you

1077
00:39:11,589 --> 00:39:08,960
need that global understanding so

1078
00:39:14,390 --> 00:39:11,599
there's absolutely um you know

1079
00:39:16,470 --> 00:39:14,400
importance in remote sensing uh

1080
00:39:18,150 --> 00:39:16,480
not only for global mapping but just

1081
00:39:21,030 --> 00:39:18,160
global you know more

1082
00:39:21,910 --> 00:39:21,040
larger context you don't throw away any

1083
00:39:25,430 --> 00:39:21,920
of your

1084
00:39:27,990 --> 00:39:25,440
coming off the surface at you so you can

1085
00:39:31,109 --> 00:39:28,000
tell different things about the surface

1086
00:39:35,109 --> 00:39:31,119
um whether it's you know uh mineralogy

1087
00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:35,119
or um or uh um you know for water or

1088
00:39:42,790 --> 00:39:38,160
potentially hydrated minerals

1089
00:39:45,109 --> 00:39:42,800
all these things can be uh

1090
00:39:47,430 --> 00:39:45,119
who are experts out there um but but you

1091
00:39:49,750 --> 00:39:47,440
can learn quite a lot um within the

1092
00:39:52,150 --> 00:39:49,760
resolution limitations of course um but

1093
00:39:53,430 --> 00:39:52,160
by remote sensing um

1094
00:39:54,230 --> 00:39:53,440
we're we're

1095
00:39:56,150 --> 00:39:54,240
uh

1096
00:39:58,630 --> 00:39:56,160
not to talk too much about da vinci but

1097
00:40:01,430 --> 00:39:58,640
we're um you know we have two elements

1098
00:40:04,150 --> 00:40:01,440
to our mission one we'll do a couple of

1099
00:40:06,870 --> 00:40:04,160
flybys of the planet

1100
00:40:10,150 --> 00:40:06,880
um and uh with some remote sensing

1101
00:40:11,910 --> 00:40:10,160
capabilities um and look at the clouds

1102
00:40:13,910 --> 00:40:11,920
look at cloud dynamics look at cloud

1103
00:40:15,349 --> 00:40:13,920
chemistry uh look at the night side of

1104
00:40:16,870 --> 00:40:15,359
the planet see if we can peer through

1105
00:40:19,030 --> 00:40:16,880
the clouds in certain wavelengths and

1106
00:40:20,950 --> 00:40:19,040
tell something about the um the rock

1107
00:40:23,349 --> 00:40:20,960
types on the surface and then connect

1108
00:40:24,870 --> 00:40:23,359
that to our descent imagery as our probe

1109
00:40:27,750 --> 00:40:24,880
goes through the clouds i mean the

1110
00:40:30,390 --> 00:40:27,760
clouds are hard on venus and uh and so

1111
00:40:32,710 --> 00:40:30,400
um remote sensing certainly has uh

1112
00:40:33,910 --> 00:40:32,720
provides context um you know but it's

1113
00:40:36,309 --> 00:40:33,920
it's uh

1114
00:40:38,630 --> 00:40:36,319
it's a it's a compliment to uh to

1115
00:40:39,990 --> 00:40:38,640
in-situ investigation

1116
00:40:41,589 --> 00:40:40,000
i love that

1117
00:40:43,589 --> 00:40:41,599
scale of different ways of looking but

1118
00:40:46,069 --> 00:40:43,599
also the complementation you know the

1119
00:40:47,430 --> 00:40:46,079
nature of these orbiters and landers and

1120
00:40:49,430 --> 00:40:47,440
things like that i know with europa

1121
00:40:50,550 --> 00:40:49,440
clipper for instance at first you know

1122
00:40:52,710 --> 00:40:50,560
some of us thought we would get like

1123
00:40:54,790 --> 00:40:52,720
little micro landers or little things

1124
00:40:56,550 --> 00:40:54,800
that would drop off the spacecraft that

1125
00:40:58,309 --> 00:40:56,560
didn't happen in the end unfortunately i

1126
00:40:59,670 --> 00:40:58,319
really wish it had but maybe in the

1127
00:41:01,270 --> 00:40:59,680
future we'll see more of these

1128
00:41:03,510 --> 00:41:01,280
complementary missions that have the

1129
00:41:05,589 --> 00:41:03,520
orbiter lander maybe even rover all as

1130
00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:05,599
you know one package together

1131
00:41:09,030 --> 00:41:06,880
we do have one question that came in

1132
00:41:10,390 --> 00:41:09,040
from a new eraser

1133
00:41:12,150 --> 00:41:10,400
i apologize and nuke that's not the

1134
00:41:13,910 --> 00:41:12,160
correct pronunciation

1135
00:41:15,190 --> 00:41:13,920
a nuke has asked

1136
00:41:17,190 --> 00:41:15,200
what would you say is the main

1137
00:41:19,829 --> 00:41:17,200
limitation for scientific instruments on

1138
00:41:21,829 --> 00:41:19,839
mars rovers is it power availability

1139
00:41:24,069 --> 00:41:21,839
size the weight robustness of

1140
00:41:25,430 --> 00:41:24,079
instruments for space missions um and i

1141
00:41:26,710 --> 00:41:25,440
guess stephanie i'll start with you what

1142
00:41:29,109 --> 00:41:26,720
do you think are the main limitations

1143
00:41:33,109 --> 00:41:29,119
for for our scientific instruments

1144
00:41:34,470 --> 00:41:33,119
um yeah mars well so mars in particular

1145
00:41:36,309 --> 00:41:34,480
is hard

1146
00:41:38,710 --> 00:41:36,319
um from the perspective that there's

1147
00:41:39,829 --> 00:41:38,720
enough atmosphere to try to kill you on

1148
00:41:42,630 --> 00:41:39,839
the way down

1149
00:41:43,910 --> 00:41:42,640
but not enough um to really make it easy

1150
00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:43,920
on you like venus is easy because

1151
00:41:47,349 --> 00:41:45,200
there's a huge amount of atmosphere you

1152
00:41:50,150 --> 00:41:47,359
need a tiny parachute for only part of

1153
00:41:52,390 --> 00:41:50,160
your descent right but um but for mars

1154
00:41:54,470 --> 00:41:52,400
the the the atmosphere is in this zone

1155
00:41:56,470 --> 00:41:54,480
where you need huge parachutes and you

1156
00:41:59,510 --> 00:41:56,480
also need like you know oftentimes some

1157
00:42:02,230 --> 00:41:59,520
other uh mechanism to help you land um

1158
00:42:03,750 --> 00:42:02,240
safely and so what that translates to is

1159
00:42:07,670 --> 00:42:03,760
of course limitations on how much you

1160
00:42:12,069 --> 00:42:07,680
can land um in terms of mass and uh

1161
00:42:14,710 --> 00:42:12,079
um and capability and so i it um i mean

1162
00:42:17,270 --> 00:42:14,720
obviously to fit inside a rocket fairing

1163
00:42:18,390 --> 00:42:17,280
you you have some limitations to your

1164
00:42:22,950 --> 00:42:18,400
volume

1165
00:42:24,230 --> 00:42:22,960
between how many different capabilities

1166
00:42:25,829 --> 00:42:24,240
you can send and how big those

1167
00:42:29,270 --> 00:42:25,839
capabilities are

1168
00:42:31,030 --> 00:42:29,280
um and so so you so you somehow just

1169
00:42:32,950 --> 00:42:31,040
find this optimum

1170
00:42:34,390 --> 00:42:32,960
for the particular opportunity that you

1171
00:42:36,710 --> 00:42:34,400
have that

1172
00:42:40,630 --> 00:42:36,720
you know that fits within your fairing

1173
00:42:43,109 --> 00:42:40,640
that can be landed with uh safely onto

1174
00:42:46,470 --> 00:42:43,119
the surface of the planet if that's your

1175
00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:46,480
mission goal um and uh and it has enough

1176
00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:49,920
breadth to be able to um you know to put

1177
00:42:54,069 --> 00:42:52,640
your core discoveries into context um in

1178
00:42:55,829 --> 00:42:54,079
that environment

1179
00:42:57,910 --> 00:42:55,839
i don't know if that helps it's very

1180
00:42:59,030 --> 00:42:57,920
very helpful uh next we have a second

1181
00:43:01,589 --> 00:42:59,040
question from a nuke that i think i'm

1182
00:43:03,430 --> 00:43:01,599
going to answer first so a nuke says i

1183
00:43:05,589 --> 00:43:03,440
use raman spectroscopy in my research

1184
00:43:06,710 --> 00:43:05,599
i'm a big fan what are the limitations

1185
00:43:08,470 --> 00:43:06,720
that stop us from putting a very

1186
00:43:11,030 --> 00:43:08,480
sensitive raman spectroscope on mars and

1187
00:43:13,190 --> 00:43:11,040
looking for organics um a nuke we have a

1188
00:43:15,349 --> 00:43:13,200
raman spectroscope on mars and it can

1189
00:43:17,190 --> 00:43:15,359
look for organics um own perseverance

1190
00:43:18,950 --> 00:43:17,200
the sherlock instrument uh i also use

1191
00:43:21,589 --> 00:43:18,960
ramon spectroscopy in my graduate

1192
00:43:23,910 --> 00:43:21,599
research uh and and super excited for

1193
00:43:26,150 --> 00:43:23,920
perseverance and for sherlock

1194
00:43:27,670 --> 00:43:26,160
and so richard maybe for you um what are

1195
00:43:29,589 --> 00:43:27,680
the limitations we've had in getting

1196
00:43:31,349 --> 00:43:29,599
some of these more these newer kind of

1197
00:43:34,630 --> 00:43:31,359
uh instrumental approaches onto some of

1198
00:43:35,990 --> 00:43:34,640
our rovers and our spacecraft

1199
00:43:39,030 --> 00:43:36,000
well i think

1200
00:43:41,670 --> 00:43:39,040
you know you take something like

1201
00:43:43,750 --> 00:43:41,680
we are bringing new technologies and new

1202
00:43:45,990 --> 00:43:43,760
approaches on these rovers

1203
00:43:48,630 --> 00:43:46,000
um so i don't think it's it's an issue

1204
00:43:50,870 --> 00:43:48,640
of the technologies but i agree with

1205
00:43:52,870 --> 00:43:50,880
with stephanie every mission has

1206
00:43:56,870 --> 00:43:52,880
multiple objectives

1207
00:43:59,349 --> 00:43:56,880
you have to have multiple instruments

1208
00:44:02,309 --> 00:43:59,359
multiple instruments types that need to

1209
00:44:04,710 --> 00:44:02,319
share resources and so particularly on a

1210
00:44:07,190 --> 00:44:04,720
rover you have all sorts of resource

1211
00:44:09,349 --> 00:44:07,200
limitations so i think that that that

1212
00:44:12,069 --> 00:44:09,359
um you know

1213
00:44:14,790 --> 00:44:12,079
each each time we go the rose rovers get

1214
00:44:18,390 --> 00:44:14,800
bigger and more capable um but still i

1215
00:44:20,390 --> 00:44:18,400
think that that's a a primary limitation

1216
00:44:21,430 --> 00:44:20,400
we try to do a number of different

1217
00:44:23,190 --> 00:44:21,440
things

1218
00:44:26,790 --> 00:44:23,200
and we need a number of different tools

1219
00:44:30,069 --> 00:44:26,800
to do that um and so that that you know

1220
00:44:33,190 --> 00:44:30,079
spreads resources around

1221
00:44:37,910 --> 00:44:33,200
very good um questions john rose told

1222
00:44:42,230 --> 00:44:39,430
i imagine john's thinking of maybe

1223
00:44:44,470 --> 00:44:42,240
metabolisms that rely on producing and

1224
00:44:47,349 --> 00:44:44,480
probably more more likely consuming

1225
00:44:48,390 --> 00:44:47,359
methane so methanotrophs perhaps um so

1226
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:48,400
john wants to know what kinds of

1227
00:44:52,390 --> 00:44:50,400
scientific instruments you think

1228
00:44:54,790 --> 00:44:52,400
we would need to detect to detect these

1229
00:45:02,230 --> 00:44:54,800
life forms that could be in a place like

1230
00:45:05,109 --> 00:45:03,190
that's a

1231
00:45:06,950 --> 00:45:05,119
well we're not going to solve this here

1232
00:45:09,109 --> 00:45:06,960
but um

1233
00:45:11,109 --> 00:45:09,119
uh but i think it's a it's a valid

1234
00:45:12,630 --> 00:45:11,119
question i mean i think that we're um

1235
00:45:13,829 --> 00:45:12,640
and i'm going to hand it over to richard

1236
00:45:15,910 --> 00:45:13,839
in a second there are two things i want

1237
00:45:17,510 --> 00:45:15,920
to say first thing is that we're still

1238
00:45:19,670 --> 00:45:17,520
in the um

1239
00:45:21,750 --> 00:45:19,680
uh um

1240
00:45:23,589 --> 00:45:21,760
at the level of understanding at titan

1241
00:45:25,190 --> 00:45:23,599
that we're still asking basic questions

1242
00:45:27,750 --> 00:45:25,200
about what the

1243
00:45:29,430 --> 00:45:27,760
you know the resources are for any life

1244
00:45:30,790 --> 00:45:29,440
form there we know that it's cold there

1245
00:45:33,109 --> 00:45:30,800
we know that there's liquid there that's

1246
00:45:36,470 --> 00:45:33,119
great we know there's ice water ice

1247
00:45:38,069 --> 00:45:36,480
there that's also cool

1248
00:45:40,630 --> 00:45:38,079
and we know that there's a really rich

1249
00:45:43,109 --> 00:45:40,640
atmosphere that is a laboratory for

1250
00:45:45,910 --> 00:45:43,119
organic chemistry which is really cool

1251
00:45:48,390 --> 00:45:45,920
and definitely prebiotically

1252
00:45:51,109 --> 00:45:48,400
important if not biologically active

1253
00:45:52,390 --> 00:45:51,119
right now um but with with dragonfly and

1254
00:45:53,990 --> 00:45:52,400
i'm not on the dragonfly mission so

1255
00:45:54,790 --> 00:45:54,000
forgive me if i get anything wrong um

1256
00:45:56,710 --> 00:45:54,800
but

1257
00:45:58,870 --> 00:45:56,720
with dragonfly we're going to ask those

1258
00:46:01,510 --> 00:45:58,880
really foundational questions about what

1259
00:46:02,230 --> 00:46:01,520
the current chemistry is what the cycles

1260
00:46:03,829 --> 00:46:02,240
are

1261
00:46:06,470 --> 00:46:03,839
how the surface expresses those

1262
00:46:08,069 --> 00:46:06,480
different cycles what variability there

1263
00:46:10,710 --> 00:46:08,079
is across the surface for those who

1264
00:46:12,950 --> 00:46:10,720
don't know dragonfly is a quadcopter

1265
00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:12,960
with aerial mobility that will land

1266
00:46:17,190 --> 00:46:14,560
repeatedly

1267
00:46:19,990 --> 00:46:17,200
in in different regions of

1268
00:46:23,030 --> 00:46:20,000
saturn's moon titan and and take

1269
00:46:25,670 --> 00:46:23,040
analyses take in samples and analyze

1270
00:46:27,510 --> 00:46:25,680
those samples and look at variability in

1271
00:46:29,510 --> 00:46:27,520
the chemistry of the surface environment

1272
00:46:31,349 --> 00:46:29,520
and atmosphere near surface atmosphere

1273
00:46:32,630 --> 00:46:31,359
of titan um

1274
00:46:34,950 --> 00:46:32,640
through the course of that mission so

1275
00:46:37,190 --> 00:46:34,960
that's really exciting because it's like

1276
00:46:38,470 --> 00:46:37,200
um we're on the verge of understanding

1277
00:46:41,109 --> 00:46:38,480
an incredible

1278
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:41,119
amount about titan where we can then

1279
00:46:44,230 --> 00:46:43,200
kind of engage

1280
00:46:45,750 --> 00:46:44,240
our best

1281
00:46:48,150 --> 00:46:45,760
thinkers on

1282
00:46:50,790 --> 00:46:48,160
the fundamentals of biology

1283
00:46:53,670 --> 00:46:50,800
and um and start to ask questions about

1284
00:46:55,910 --> 00:46:53,680
what a metabolism would look like right

1285
00:46:58,309 --> 00:46:55,920
but i think and and let me say that

1286
00:47:02,069 --> 00:46:58,319
dragonfly that instrument suite the

1287
00:47:04,870 --> 00:47:02,079
payload suite is um is capable of making

1288
00:47:06,790 --> 00:47:04,880
really broad analytical measurements

1289
00:47:08,390 --> 00:47:06,800
that can be interpreted and debated

1290
00:47:11,270 --> 00:47:08,400
probably right

1291
00:47:13,990 --> 00:47:11,280
about what they mean um so that that

1292
00:47:16,790 --> 00:47:14,000
mission is a good example of where you

1293
00:47:18,470 --> 00:47:16,800
can incorporate instrumentation you can

1294
00:47:21,109 --> 00:47:18,480
you know include instrumentation in your

1295
00:47:23,829 --> 00:47:21,119
payload that's capable of really broad

1296
00:47:26,870 --> 00:47:23,839
scientific inquiry and prepared to

1297
00:47:30,069 --> 00:47:26,880
discover new things and that is the one

1298
00:47:31,829 --> 00:47:30,079
of the really really exciting things

1299
00:47:33,910 --> 00:47:31,839
very cool and you know drones are so hot

1300
00:47:36,549 --> 00:47:33,920
right now um but dragonfly is going

1301
00:47:38,710 --> 00:47:36,559
someplace super cold uh the surface

1302
00:47:41,589 --> 00:47:38,720
titan is very cold perhaps too cold for

1303
00:47:42,950 --> 00:47:41,599
for metabolisms at the surface and so so

1304
00:47:45,510 --> 00:47:42,960
richard um if you can answer the

1305
00:47:46,790 --> 00:47:45,520
question as well but also i'd ask uh

1306
00:47:49,829 --> 00:47:46,800
what would we have to take to get into

1307
00:47:52,230 --> 00:47:49,839
the subsurface of titan as well

1308
00:47:54,710 --> 00:47:52,240
um well the first part of the question

1309
00:47:56,870 --> 00:47:54,720
i'll i again i agree with stephanie

1310
00:47:59,510 --> 00:47:56,880
completely you know we can look back to

1311
00:48:01,190 --> 00:47:59,520
viking and the first mission to viking

1312
00:48:03,990 --> 00:48:01,200
they were it's going to be light

1313
00:48:05,589 --> 00:48:04,000
detection and three of their four

1314
00:48:06,790 --> 00:48:05,599
primary instruments were all about

1315
00:48:08,470 --> 00:48:06,800
trying to

1316
00:48:10,390 --> 00:48:08,480
dig up a little bit of soil and trying

1317
00:48:12,549 --> 00:48:10,400
to grow microbes in it

1318
00:48:14,309 --> 00:48:12,559
um and so what did we miss in that

1319
00:48:16,549 --> 00:48:14,319
mission well we missed the opportunity

1320
00:48:19,349 --> 00:48:16,559
to get some of the real fundamental

1321
00:48:21,270 --> 00:48:19,359
understanding of the environment that we

1322
00:48:23,349 --> 00:48:21,280
then did with follow-on missions we

1323
00:48:25,030 --> 00:48:23,359
really changed our strategy as stephanie

1324
00:48:27,910 --> 00:48:25,040
has already mentioned you know

1325
00:48:31,829 --> 00:48:27,920
step-by-step building on your knowledge

1326
00:48:34,549 --> 00:48:31,839
titan is a incredibly alien um

1327
00:48:37,829 --> 00:48:34,559
environment that we really don't know

1328
00:48:39,910 --> 00:48:37,839
much about at all and so the strategy

1329
00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:39,920
that's being used as stephanie pointed

1330
00:48:45,349 --> 00:48:42,960
out is to really start out funding

1331
00:48:48,230 --> 00:48:45,359
increasing our fundamental understanding

1332
00:48:51,030 --> 00:48:48,240
of that environment and from there we

1333
00:48:53,030 --> 00:48:51,040
can start developing hypotheses about

1334
00:49:00,829 --> 00:48:53,040
the potential for life and how that

1335
00:49:04,390 --> 00:49:01,990
um it's something new and dear to my

1336
00:49:06,870 --> 00:49:04,400
heart but um i'll let you choose if you

1337
00:49:09,190 --> 00:49:06,880
want to answer this uh william creamer

1338
00:49:11,510 --> 00:49:09,200
on youtube has asked um where we have

1339
00:49:13,190 --> 00:49:11,520
experiments that can grab samples um you

1340
00:49:16,470 --> 00:49:13,200
know in situ so we're grabbing up some

1341
00:49:18,309 --> 00:49:16,480
regolith that might contain e.t life

1342
00:49:21,349 --> 00:49:18,319
um is there a consideration of the

1343
00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:21,359
bioethical consequences of potentially

1344
00:49:26,390 --> 00:49:24,240
harming any life in the sample

1345
00:49:28,470 --> 00:49:26,400
and so i'll start um since i'm currently

1346
00:49:31,430 --> 00:49:28,480
working on a collaboration with the

1347
00:49:33,349 --> 00:49:31,440
artist lucia monge she and i are going

1348
00:49:35,430 --> 00:49:33,359
to be growing ornamental plants in in

1349
00:49:37,670 --> 00:49:35,440
martian regal and marshall conditions

1350
00:49:40,710 --> 00:49:37,680
specifically on martian time with the

1351
00:49:42,950 --> 00:49:40,720
extra 40 minutes of day length

1352
00:49:44,630 --> 00:49:42,960
however we're also thinking about not

1353
00:49:46,790 --> 00:49:44,640
just the the impacts to the plants but

1354
00:49:48,710 --> 00:49:46,800
also the impacts to the humans as well

1355
00:49:51,430 --> 00:49:48,720
as the ethics uh the ethical

1356
00:49:53,430 --> 00:49:51,440
consequences of putting other organisms

1357
00:49:55,430 --> 00:49:53,440
into these conditions and so this is

1358
00:49:57,190 --> 00:49:55,440
kind of important for my own work in

1359
00:49:59,750 --> 00:49:57,200
considering you know how do we treat

1360
00:50:01,829 --> 00:49:59,760
other life out there um so i wonder for

1361
00:50:03,829 --> 00:50:01,839
either of you in your own conversations

1362
00:50:05,990 --> 00:50:03,839
um perhaps in the workshop have anything

1363
00:50:09,349 --> 00:50:06,000
around this kind of theme of bioethics

1364
00:50:13,349 --> 00:50:10,549
well

1365
00:50:14,710 --> 00:50:13,359
so i i would say that that that part of

1366
00:50:15,589 --> 00:50:14,720
that is

1367
00:50:18,549 --> 00:50:15,599
you know

1368
00:50:20,309 --> 00:50:18,559
falls within a broader discussion that

1369
00:50:22,790 --> 00:50:20,319
we have all the time about forward

1370
00:50:24,309 --> 00:50:22,800
contamination of another planet

1371
00:50:29,510 --> 00:50:24,319
and that has

1372
00:50:34,069 --> 00:50:31,510
so i would say that the community

1373
00:50:35,990 --> 00:50:34,079
or or you know planetary sciences it is

1374
00:50:37,190 --> 00:50:36,000
something that is thought about and is

1375
00:50:40,790 --> 00:50:37,200
considered

1376
00:50:43,349 --> 00:50:40,800
um and and our approaches to exploration

1377
00:50:44,950 --> 00:50:43,359
are you know also take that into account

1378
00:50:47,910 --> 00:50:44,960
in terms of planetary protection

1379
00:50:50,309 --> 00:50:47,920
requirements or you know ability to you

1380
00:50:53,109 --> 00:50:50,319
know contaminate the planet and also to

1381
00:50:55,109 --> 00:50:53,119
contaminate our own science

1382
00:50:56,549 --> 00:50:55,119
oh it's a very true

1383
00:50:57,910 --> 00:50:56,559
actually we have another question from

1384
00:51:00,309 --> 00:50:57,920
the nuke again he's asking some really

1385
00:51:03,109 --> 00:51:00,319
good ones here uh a nuke uh wants to

1386
00:51:06,230 --> 00:51:03,119
know with the possible contamination

1387
00:51:09,109 --> 00:51:06,240
of mars from human habitation um how

1388
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:09,119
might that affect our search for current

1389
00:51:15,750 --> 00:51:12,480
or or past life on mars

1390
00:51:18,870 --> 00:51:17,190
because i

1391
00:51:20,630 --> 00:51:18,880
talked about this quite a bit

1392
00:51:22,870 --> 00:51:20,640
and and you know

1393
00:51:24,309 --> 00:51:22,880
so there's two parts of or there's you

1394
00:51:27,190 --> 00:51:24,319
know it's sort of a continuum right

1395
00:51:29,190 --> 00:51:27,200
they'll be the first discovery of life

1396
00:51:30,790 --> 00:51:29,200
um that'll happen sometime hopefully in

1397
00:51:32,790 --> 00:51:30,800
the very near future

1398
00:51:34,710 --> 00:51:32,800
um but we could compare that to say the

1399
00:51:37,349 --> 00:51:34,720
search for exoplanets

1400
00:51:39,349 --> 00:51:37,359
after the first exoplanet was discovered

1401
00:51:41,030 --> 00:51:39,359
that field exploded

1402
00:51:42,870 --> 00:51:41,040
trying to understand

1403
00:51:44,710 --> 00:51:42,880
where they are how many they are what's

1404
00:51:46,390 --> 00:51:44,720
their nature i think with human

1405
00:51:51,109 --> 00:51:46,400
exploration the same thing is going to

1406
00:51:53,589 --> 00:51:51,119
happen um there will be it will increase

1407
00:51:55,990 --> 00:51:53,599
um the effort to search for life by

1408
00:51:58,470 --> 00:51:56,000
orders of magnitude so it's not it's not

1409
00:52:01,589 --> 00:51:58,480
a negative it's actually a positive and

1410
00:52:03,589 --> 00:52:01,599
i would put it in comparison also to the

1411
00:52:04,390 --> 00:52:03,599
research that people do here on earth

1412
00:52:06,870 --> 00:52:04,400
right

1413
00:52:09,109 --> 00:52:06,880
we're constantly out in the field trying

1414
00:52:09,990 --> 00:52:09,119
to understand the origin of life on

1415
00:52:12,630 --> 00:52:10,000
earth

1416
00:52:14,470 --> 00:52:12,640
and the presence of humans well

1417
00:52:16,309 --> 00:52:14,480
no matter how much we pollute we're

1418
00:52:18,069 --> 00:52:16,319
still searching that answer and and

1419
00:52:18,870 --> 00:52:18,079
we're still successful i don't think

1420
00:52:22,069 --> 00:52:18,880
that

1421
00:52:24,470 --> 00:52:22,079
um you know the the the signs of life um

1422
00:52:26,470 --> 00:52:24,480
are vast and diverse and i don't think

1423
00:52:29,349 --> 00:52:26,480
we're going to be confusing

1424
00:52:31,190 --> 00:52:29,359
um say ancient fossil records on mars

1425
00:52:34,309 --> 00:52:31,200
with contemporary contamination that

1426
00:52:37,030 --> 00:52:34,319
come from humans so i see that you know

1427
00:52:39,270 --> 00:52:37,040
the the human exploration part of mars

1428
00:52:40,549 --> 00:52:39,280
really just expands our ability to

1429
00:52:42,630 --> 00:52:40,559
understand

1430
00:52:44,870 --> 00:52:42,640
uh the potential for life on mars and

1431
00:52:46,630 --> 00:52:44,880
its potential distribution so i look

1432
00:52:49,270 --> 00:52:46,640
really forward to it

1433
00:52:51,670 --> 00:52:49,280
and i'll just add a few programs

1434
00:52:54,390 --> 00:52:51,680
um a couple of things

1435
00:52:56,630 --> 00:52:54,400
really excellent answer um but you know

1436
00:52:58,870 --> 00:52:56,640
we're tackling we're tackling similar

1437
00:53:01,349 --> 00:52:58,880
questions already

1438
00:53:03,109 --> 00:53:01,359
um in terms of how do we distinguish

1439
00:53:05,750 --> 00:53:03,119
between what we've brought

1440
00:53:07,750 --> 00:53:05,760
and um and what's you know

1441
00:53:10,470 --> 00:53:07,760
indigenous to the sample or to the

1442
00:53:12,230 --> 00:53:10,480
environment and so um you know

1443
00:53:14,950 --> 00:53:12,240
so far we've tackled that most

1444
00:53:17,670 --> 00:53:14,960
explicitly for chemical signatures right

1445
00:53:20,069 --> 00:53:17,680
um so we um we

1446
00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:20,079
typically missions exercise very

1447
00:53:25,910 --> 00:53:22,960
rigorous contamination control

1448
00:53:28,870 --> 00:53:25,920
plans to um to document what you're

1449
00:53:32,069 --> 00:53:28,880
sending and to understand how

1450
00:53:34,549 --> 00:53:32,079
those signatures might be expressed by

1451
00:53:37,829 --> 00:53:34,559
um in situ you know analyses once you

1452
00:53:40,069 --> 00:53:37,839
get to a place the the other analogy is

1453
00:53:43,589 --> 00:53:40,079
you know looking at uh

1454
00:53:46,950 --> 00:53:43,599
analyzing meteorites for prebiotic

1455
00:53:49,510 --> 00:53:46,960
compounds like nucleobase amino acid

1456
00:53:51,430 --> 00:53:49,520
oxalic acids i mean routinely routinely

1457
00:53:54,470 --> 00:53:51,440
it takes a lot of effort but we've come

1458
00:53:55,990 --> 00:53:54,480
up with a protocol for for establishing

1459
00:53:58,549 --> 00:53:56,000
which of those amino acids are most

1460
00:54:01,589 --> 00:53:58,559
likely to have originated beyond earth

1461
00:54:04,069 --> 00:54:01,599
in prebiotic chemical pathways on on

1462
00:54:05,829 --> 00:54:04,079
these you know primitive bodies and

1463
00:54:07,910 --> 00:54:05,839
which are contamination from earth and

1464
00:54:10,790 --> 00:54:07,920
that comes from like you know just the

1465
00:54:13,270 --> 00:54:10,800
prevalence of those amino acids in life

1466
00:54:15,670 --> 00:54:13,280
on earth versus you know what we're um

1467
00:54:18,230 --> 00:54:15,680
what are very convincingly outside of

1468
00:54:20,150 --> 00:54:18,240
the typical regime of life that you

1469
00:54:22,150 --> 00:54:20,160
would see

1470
00:54:25,190 --> 00:54:22,160
terrestrially so i think that we have a

1471
00:54:26,790 --> 00:54:25,200
lot of great thinking to build upon

1472
00:54:28,870 --> 00:54:26,800
to try to tackle some of these

1473
00:54:30,150 --> 00:54:28,880
challenges i mean

1474
00:54:32,470 --> 00:54:30,160
you know i think

1475
00:54:34,630 --> 00:54:32,480
preparation is good and folding in some

1476
00:54:36,789 --> 00:54:34,640
of these concerns into

1477
00:54:39,270 --> 00:54:36,799
plans not only for robotic but for

1478
00:54:41,829 --> 00:54:39,280
future human missions is important and i

1479
00:54:43,829 --> 00:54:41,839
know that thinking is going on um but

1480
00:54:46,150 --> 00:54:43,839
also you know we have good strategies

1481
00:54:48,309 --> 00:54:46,160
for um for being able to differentiate

1482
00:54:50,630 --> 00:54:48,319
between the origin of signals

1483
00:54:51,829 --> 00:54:50,640
that's fantastic um so many important

1484
00:54:53,990 --> 00:54:51,839
things there and i'm going to switch the

1485
00:54:55,589 --> 00:54:54,000
gears a little bit more here again so we

1486
00:54:57,829 --> 00:54:55,599
we switch to like philosophy and

1487
00:54:59,990 --> 00:54:57,839
bioethics um our next question is more

1488
00:55:02,309 --> 00:55:00,000
in the norm of space law and comes from

1489
00:55:04,870 --> 00:55:02,319
adam robinson on youtube

1490
00:55:07,430 --> 00:55:04,880
and so we'll see how much you wish to

1491
00:55:08,950 --> 00:55:07,440
answer this question um adam kind of

1492
00:55:11,510 --> 00:55:08,960
wants to know

1493
00:55:14,630 --> 00:55:11,520
should we create laws or policy

1494
00:55:16,470 --> 00:55:14,640
um to control where private companies um

1495
00:55:17,910 --> 00:55:16,480
and i would actually add any government

1496
00:55:20,309 --> 00:55:17,920
agency as well

1497
00:55:22,549 --> 00:55:20,319
from going to certain areas perhaps on

1498
00:55:24,309 --> 00:55:22,559
mars or another world that we've deemed

1499
00:55:26,630 --> 00:55:24,319
potentially habitable or that could be a

1500
00:55:28,150 --> 00:55:26,640
good place to find signs of past or

1501
00:55:30,390 --> 00:55:28,160
present life

1502
00:55:32,470 --> 00:55:30,400
this kind of reminds me of the concept

1503
00:55:34,789 --> 00:55:32,480
of planetary parks for instance should

1504
00:55:36,870 --> 00:55:34,799
we have preserved areas of some of these

1505
00:55:38,870 --> 00:55:36,880
worlds where for instance we don't send

1506
00:55:40,230 --> 00:55:38,880
a rover because it might just be that

1507
00:55:42,950 --> 00:55:40,240
nice and pristine and we don't want to

1508
00:55:44,950 --> 00:55:42,960
ruin anything um stephanie what do you

1509
00:55:47,670 --> 00:55:44,960
think about that well i'm a big fan of

1510
00:55:49,510 --> 00:55:47,680
national parks on earth so

1511
00:55:51,910 --> 00:55:49,520
yes no

1512
00:55:54,309 --> 00:55:51,920
i don't know that um i it's obviously

1513
00:55:57,750 --> 00:55:54,319
outside of my field but um but i think

1514
00:56:02,390 --> 00:55:57,760
uh you know that there are good examples

1515
00:56:03,510 --> 00:56:02,400
of where um people from different uh um

1516
00:56:07,030 --> 00:56:03,520
you know

1517
00:56:09,829 --> 00:56:07,040
countries have come together and come to

1518
00:56:13,430 --> 00:56:09,839
agreements about how to um

1519
00:56:15,829 --> 00:56:13,440
uh you know rules of exploration and and

1520
00:56:18,549 --> 00:56:15,839
uh and some common um

1521
00:56:20,470 --> 00:56:18,559
values that we have in

1522
00:56:23,270 --> 00:56:20,480
exploring um

1523
00:56:25,750 --> 00:56:23,280
space and um and i think you know the

1524
00:56:28,390 --> 00:56:25,760
future is that there are

1525
00:56:31,670 --> 00:56:28,400
there's a proliferation of

1526
00:56:34,549 --> 00:56:31,680
entities that are capable of pushing

1527
00:56:36,789 --> 00:56:34,559
um exploration even further and so we

1528
00:56:37,670 --> 00:56:36,799
should i think we should acknowledge it

1529
00:56:39,030 --> 00:56:37,680
and

1530
00:56:41,589 --> 00:56:39,040
bring together

1531
00:56:44,150 --> 00:56:41,599
uh um you know all interested parties

1532
00:56:46,549 --> 00:56:44,160
into those discussions but i'm sorry i'm

1533
00:56:48,470 --> 00:56:46,559
like really out on a limb

1534
00:56:49,750 --> 00:56:48,480
i love that answer

1535
00:56:51,829 --> 00:56:49,760
and i guess so we actually are coming

1536
00:56:53,430 --> 00:56:51,839
down to the top of the hour and i'm

1537
00:56:54,710 --> 00:56:53,440
going to be a little selfish here and

1538
00:56:55,829 --> 00:56:54,720
ask you one more question and i think

1539
00:56:58,230 --> 00:56:55,839
it's kind of fun

1540
00:56:59,750 --> 00:56:58,240
um so for myself i was inspired at five

1541
00:57:02,390 --> 00:56:59,760
years old to become a scientist by

1542
00:57:03,990 --> 00:57:02,400
watching an an 80s movie that had some

1543
00:57:06,069 --> 00:57:04,000
rock and roll in it and talked about

1544
00:57:07,670 --> 00:57:06,079
mathematics and you know with my life i

1545
00:57:09,990 --> 00:57:07,680
was inspired by things like star trek

1546
00:57:11,670 --> 00:57:10,000
and star wars um i wonder for both of

1547
00:57:14,549 --> 00:57:11,680
you is there anything in like science

1548
00:57:16,470 --> 00:57:14,559
fiction or literature film comic books

1549
00:57:18,789 --> 00:57:16,480
or novels things that you know that

1550
00:57:21,670 --> 00:57:18,799
others have created maybe even art that

1551
00:57:23,990 --> 00:57:21,680
has inspired you to pursue these careers

1552
00:57:25,750 --> 00:57:24,000
that you've both taken on in your lives

1553
00:57:27,190 --> 00:57:25,760
and richard i'll start with you is there

1554
00:57:29,190 --> 00:57:27,200
anything that's really inspired you to

1555
00:57:31,430 --> 00:57:29,200
pursue this life

1556
00:57:33,190 --> 00:57:31,440
well i i started my career in science

1557
00:57:35,109 --> 00:57:33,200
education working at the national

1558
00:57:36,870 --> 00:57:35,119
science foundation and i never actually

1559
00:57:39,670 --> 00:57:36,880
thought i'd become a planetary science

1560
00:57:41,910 --> 00:57:39,680
or or an astrobiologist

1561
00:57:43,829 --> 00:57:41,920
and i can also say that i'm not a big

1562
00:57:47,430 --> 00:57:43,839
fan of science fiction

1563
00:57:48,870 --> 00:57:47,440
um but but what i do love is the process

1564
00:57:50,870 --> 00:57:48,880
of discovery

1565
00:57:53,190 --> 00:57:50,880
and if i were gonna read a book it

1566
00:57:54,950 --> 00:57:53,200
actually might be um you know it would

1567
00:57:56,950 --> 00:57:54,960
be a biography

1568
00:57:59,109 --> 00:57:56,960
or it might be a historic something

1569
00:58:01,670 --> 00:57:59,119
about history because the difference

1570
00:58:03,430 --> 00:58:01,680
between science fiction and

1571
00:58:06,150 --> 00:58:03,440
us is we're real

1572
00:58:07,670 --> 00:58:06,160
and what we're doing is very very real

1573
00:58:09,750 --> 00:58:07,680
and and and

1574
00:58:11,589 --> 00:58:09,760
pursuing that and really understanding

1575
00:58:13,910 --> 00:58:11,599
the real challenges

1576
00:58:15,589 --> 00:58:13,920
um i think is really what what makes

1577
00:58:17,990 --> 00:58:15,599
this job great

1578
00:58:19,990 --> 00:58:18,000
that's fantastic how about you

1579
00:58:23,270 --> 00:58:20,000
what's inspired you and your career i'll

1580
00:58:25,910 --> 00:58:23,280
be really quick um so cosmos the

1581
00:58:27,510 --> 00:58:25,920
original cosmo series earl sagan was on

1582
00:58:30,069 --> 00:58:27,520
all the time when i was a kid so

1583
00:58:32,870 --> 00:58:30,079
obviously that played a huge role um i

1584
00:58:35,109 --> 00:58:32,880
also remember being like a tween-ish

1585
00:58:37,349 --> 00:58:35,119
and um and really pushing myself i

1586
00:58:39,109 --> 00:58:37,359
picked up a brief history of time by

1587
00:58:41,349 --> 00:58:39,119
stephen hawking from the bookstore and i

1588
00:58:42,950 --> 00:58:41,359
really pushed myself to um to read it

1589
00:58:45,510 --> 00:58:42,960
even though i wasn't convinced i could

1590
00:58:47,349 --> 00:58:45,520
right um but but that was a huge source

1591
00:58:49,910 --> 00:58:47,359
of information of inspiration not only

1592
00:58:51,990 --> 00:58:49,920
to like inspire my love of you know the

1593
00:58:53,990 --> 00:58:52,000
universe exploring the universe but also

1594
00:58:56,150 --> 00:58:54,000
to build my own confidence that these

1595
00:58:58,309 --> 00:58:56,160
are concepts that are not beyond me and

1596
00:58:59,430 --> 00:58:58,319
you know i could pursue hard science in

1597
00:59:01,750 --> 00:58:59,440
my studies

1598
00:59:04,230 --> 00:59:01,760
well that's wonderful um i'm so happy

1599
00:59:06,309 --> 00:59:04,240
you've joined us for this show today i'm

1600
00:59:08,150 --> 00:59:06,319
so glad you were both inspired to pursue

1601
00:59:10,470 --> 00:59:08,160
these careers and become astrobiologists

1602
00:59:13,430 --> 00:59:10,480
and planetary scientists and help us to

1603
00:59:14,630 --> 00:59:13,440
continue exploring and being curious uh

1604
00:59:16,789 --> 00:59:14,640
the future of the search for life

1605
00:59:18,870 --> 00:59:16,799
workshop is continuing in two more weeks

1606
00:59:20,230 --> 00:59:18,880
from now there's still more to tackle

1607
00:59:22,069 --> 00:59:20,240
and more work for these communities

1608
00:59:24,069 --> 00:59:22,079
you're bringing together uh for our

1609
00:59:25,510 --> 00:59:24,079
audience watching right now at home even

1610
00:59:27,829 --> 00:59:25,520
if you can't take part in the in the

1611
00:59:29,510 --> 00:59:27,839
workshop um if you're interested in

1612
00:59:31,589 --> 00:59:29,520
telling us what do you think are the

1613
00:59:33,270 --> 00:59:31,599
main challenges in bringing together the

1614
00:59:35,589 --> 00:59:33,280
technology and the science of light

1615
00:59:38,789 --> 00:59:35,599
protection uh feel free to reach out on

1616
00:59:41,510 --> 00:59:38,799
twitter at nasa astro bio or at saganorg

1617
00:59:45,829 --> 00:59:41,520
or you can find me at cosmobiologist

1618
00:59:48,390 --> 00:59:45,839
or you can email us at info

1619
00:59:49,829 --> 00:59:48,400
uh so dr stephanie getty dr richard

1620
00:59:52,150 --> 00:59:49,839
quinn thank you so much for joining us

1621
00:59:53,910 --> 00:59:52,160
for ask an astrobiologist thanks so much

1622
00:59:56,230 --> 00:59:53,920
grandma

1623
00:59:57,990 --> 00:59:56,240
great having you on um if anyone out

1624
00:59:59,829 --> 00:59:58,000
there watching wants to stay in the loop

1625
01:00:03,030 --> 00:59:59,839
about info and opportunities from nasa

1626
01:00:04,309 --> 01:00:03,040
astro biology uh we'll drop a link in

1627
01:00:06,710 --> 01:00:04,319
the chat so you can sign up for our

1628
01:00:07,829 --> 01:00:06,720
official mailing list learn more about

1629
01:00:11,109 --> 01:00:07,839
all the wonderful things nasa

1630
01:00:12,549 --> 01:00:11,119
astrobiology is doing uh so to to all of

1631
01:00:14,950 --> 01:00:12,559
you out there who've been exploring with

1632
01:00:16,950 --> 01:00:14,960
us and learning more thanks for joining

1633
01:00:18,690 --> 01:00:16,960
and until next time remember to

1634
01:01:10,309 --> 01:00:18,700
stay curious